Barry_Green
Moderator
Exactly! :thumbsup:
film school necessary?
- Thread starter Steve Laramie
- Start date
SergejIvanovits
Well-known member
The main roll of a teacher should be helping you in the learning process, to translate the learning materials to your understanding and helping you to find the logic (esthetic) behind the stuff. A teacher who can all of the world's stuff can be a Good in your eyes, but he can also be useless for you as a student. Just to tell a student what the fact is isn't teaching.
Most of the time students means the teacher is just fantastic because they look up to the knowledge they don't have. They didn't realize they couldn't profit to much of the class. In such a situation a student has also a responsibility. They have to ask him self, do I really know what I think I know. They have to push the teacher to be a better one.
Teaching isn't so funny if the teacher realize that you as a student are just there, even you are following the class. You, as a student, has to push the teacher to the outer limit, you have to suck all the knowledge out of him, you have to show you want to learn. It's something what a teacher needs.
taormina
Btw Kovács László (Laszlo Kovacs) wasn't finished the high-schoole in Hungary , but he and Vilmos Zsigmond had a fantastic teacher.
Most of the time students means the teacher is just fantastic because they look up to the knowledge they don't have. They didn't realize they couldn't profit to much of the class. In such a situation a student has also a responsibility. They have to ask him self, do I really know what I think I know. They have to push the teacher to be a better one.
Teaching isn't so funny if the teacher realize that you as a student are just there, even you are following the class. You, as a student, has to push the teacher to the outer limit, you have to suck all the knowledge out of him, you have to show you want to learn. It's something what a teacher needs.
taormina
Btw Kovács László (Laszlo Kovacs) wasn't finished the high-schoole in Hungary , but he and Vilmos Zsigmond had a fantastic teacher.
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dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
Nothing can teach like experance.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
NOTE: Sorry for the long post. I had a little time on my hands so I decided to have some fun with the topic... : )
Experience is great, but a good education will save you a lot of time in getting to your goal.
I offer for your consideration two scenarios involving the use of, let's say, Final Cut Pro. What you want to do is copy a clip from a P2 card, edit it to 60 seconds, color correct it, and put it up on your website.
--------------------------
A) The "experience is all I need" method:
1) Launch FCP
2) Stick the P2 card in the slot
3) Hunt through the menu bars in FCP until you find something with the word "copy" in it. There's one in the edit menu, but it doesn't copy the clip. You keep looking. After searching everywhere, you decide to see if another word instead of "copy" does the trick. "Import" caught your eye earlier, but you figured it had something to do with downloading stuff from the internet. Now you look again, and sure enough, "Import Panasonic P2" is in there. Brilliant!
4) A dialog box comes up. You squint at all the text and buttons, and click a few, but nothing happens. After a bunch of futzing around you manage to get the clip imported, but you don't actually know how you did it. You were just clicking away madly when it suddenly started doing something. Whatever...it worked!
5) You try to edit it, but the "edit" menu doesn't do anything, so once again you're stuck. That timeline window sure looks interesting though, so you look for "import clip to timeline" in the menu now that you're all savvy with that import lingo and everything. It isn't there though. Time passes...
6) 20 minutes later, you're back to mad clicking and menu bar stabbing, and somehow, some click and drag clusterf*ck gets the clip into the timeline! Shee-hut! You're cookin' now!
7) You check menus for "edit video" or whatever, and find nothing that works. Tick-tock-tick-tock...
8) Just before your eyes glaze over, you notice that the cursor changes when it's right over the edge of the clip in the timeline. Cool! Maybe that does something! It does! You drag the clip's edge, and it shortens up. It's 60 seconds now!. Wicked!
9) You find "Color Correction" after a few more minutes of menu-hunting, but once again nothing happens. Your eyes mutiny. You doze off.
10) An hour later you wake up, and miraculously notice that the clip in the timeline changes color when it's selected. Hmm... I wonder if... YES! You DOUBLE-CLICK IT, THEN select color correct, and...damn...you're good...
11) Half an hour of of futzing around with the CC dialog box, alternately making the clip look either sick green or post-nuclear red, and it's finally looking better. You're ready to go to the web!
12) You're all over that FCP-speak now, so you find "export" pretty fast, but nothing happens. Well...what about SELECTING IT FIRST you say, feeling like Sherlock, and...it freakin' works!
13) You go to your webpage to upload the clip. You're rockin'!
14) After 8 tries it just won't go in. A "file size" error keeps coming up. Tick-tock-tick-tock...Ok...back to FCP.
15) Re-export, this time after hunting endlessly for a "file size" option with no luck. Then...voila! You find a dialog somewhere that says some stuff about "QuickTime" and "streaming" and "broadband". What's QuickTime, by the way? Oh well...you remember the cable guy saying something about broadband when he installed your modem, so you give it a shot, and it seems to work. Back to your web page...
16) You upload it, and the site takes the file! This is SO cool!
17) You go to view your clip online, and there it is! But...wait...it's all scrunched up, like everybody's in a funhouse mirror...all skinny and everything. Hmm...and it's really grainy too, and it sorta...stutters. And there's no sound! Holy crap!
18) At this point it suddenly occurs to you that maybe you should have LEARNED HOW TO USE THE DAMN THING FIRST...:furious3:
19) You crack open the manual, and a couple of hours later, finally get it right.
20) You send the clip's link to your friends, all of whom think you're a genius for figuring all that stuff out...:thumbsup:
Total elapsed time: 6 1/2 hours.
----------------------
This brings us to:
B) The "let's get educated first" method.
1) You put a nice FCP tutorial DVD in the drive and access the chapters on importing P2, basic editing, color correction and exporting for web. You follow the steps.
2) A hour later, your nifty 60 second video, clean, smooth and properly aspected, with sound, plays back beautifully on your site.
3) You send the clip's link to your friends, all of whom think you're a genius for figuring all that stuff out...:thumbsup:
So, yeah...experience teaches, all right. But it's probably gonne be the hard way...
Experience is great, but a good education will save you a lot of time in getting to your goal.
I offer for your consideration two scenarios involving the use of, let's say, Final Cut Pro. What you want to do is copy a clip from a P2 card, edit it to 60 seconds, color correct it, and put it up on your website.
--------------------------
A) The "experience is all I need" method:
1) Launch FCP
2) Stick the P2 card in the slot
3) Hunt through the menu bars in FCP until you find something with the word "copy" in it. There's one in the edit menu, but it doesn't copy the clip. You keep looking. After searching everywhere, you decide to see if another word instead of "copy" does the trick. "Import" caught your eye earlier, but you figured it had something to do with downloading stuff from the internet. Now you look again, and sure enough, "Import Panasonic P2" is in there. Brilliant!
4) A dialog box comes up. You squint at all the text and buttons, and click a few, but nothing happens. After a bunch of futzing around you manage to get the clip imported, but you don't actually know how you did it. You were just clicking away madly when it suddenly started doing something. Whatever...it worked!
5) You try to edit it, but the "edit" menu doesn't do anything, so once again you're stuck. That timeline window sure looks interesting though, so you look for "import clip to timeline" in the menu now that you're all savvy with that import lingo and everything. It isn't there though. Time passes...
6) 20 minutes later, you're back to mad clicking and menu bar stabbing, and somehow, some click and drag clusterf*ck gets the clip into the timeline! Shee-hut! You're cookin' now!
7) You check menus for "edit video" or whatever, and find nothing that works. Tick-tock-tick-tock...
8) Just before your eyes glaze over, you notice that the cursor changes when it's right over the edge of the clip in the timeline. Cool! Maybe that does something! It does! You drag the clip's edge, and it shortens up. It's 60 seconds now!. Wicked!
9) You find "Color Correction" after a few more minutes of menu-hunting, but once again nothing happens. Your eyes mutiny. You doze off.
10) An hour later you wake up, and miraculously notice that the clip in the timeline changes color when it's selected. Hmm... I wonder if... YES! You DOUBLE-CLICK IT, THEN select color correct, and...damn...you're good...
11) Half an hour of of futzing around with the CC dialog box, alternately making the clip look either sick green or post-nuclear red, and it's finally looking better. You're ready to go to the web!
12) You're all over that FCP-speak now, so you find "export" pretty fast, but nothing happens. Well...what about SELECTING IT FIRST you say, feeling like Sherlock, and...it freakin' works!
13) You go to your webpage to upload the clip. You're rockin'!
14) After 8 tries it just won't go in. A "file size" error keeps coming up. Tick-tock-tick-tock...Ok...back to FCP.
15) Re-export, this time after hunting endlessly for a "file size" option with no luck. Then...voila! You find a dialog somewhere that says some stuff about "QuickTime" and "streaming" and "broadband". What's QuickTime, by the way? Oh well...you remember the cable guy saying something about broadband when he installed your modem, so you give it a shot, and it seems to work. Back to your web page...
16) You upload it, and the site takes the file! This is SO cool!
17) You go to view your clip online, and there it is! But...wait...it's all scrunched up, like everybody's in a funhouse mirror...all skinny and everything. Hmm...and it's really grainy too, and it sorta...stutters. And there's no sound! Holy crap!
18) At this point it suddenly occurs to you that maybe you should have LEARNED HOW TO USE THE DAMN THING FIRST...:furious3:
19) You crack open the manual, and a couple of hours later, finally get it right.
20) You send the clip's link to your friends, all of whom think you're a genius for figuring all that stuff out...:thumbsup:
Total elapsed time: 6 1/2 hours.
----------------------
This brings us to:
B) The "let's get educated first" method.
1) You put a nice FCP tutorial DVD in the drive and access the chapters on importing P2, basic editing, color correction and exporting for web. You follow the steps.
2) A hour later, your nifty 60 second video, clean, smooth and properly aspected, with sound, plays back beautifully on your site.
3) You send the clip's link to your friends, all of whom think you're a genius for figuring all that stuff out...:thumbsup:
So, yeah...experience teaches, all right. But it's probably gonne be the hard way...
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dory_breaux
Todd Wannabe
That is true, very true. I still stand by my thought that experance is the best teacher, as far as cinematography is concerned.
ProfessorU
Veteran
The books cost the same whether you're in college or not. The mistakes cost a lot less, though.
snowleopard
Well-known member
This is yet another false dilemma.
One can get to film school, not connect on the lectures, and not get hands on work with quality equipment, and not understand the feedback by the time school's over.
One can buy/borrow equipment, work with others with experience, make mistakes, get good feedback from others, and not spend a day in film school and learn reasonably quickly from this experience.
Neither of the above two scenarios are any more absolute or likely than the scenario listed by Ted in his example.
Certainly a good education will offer more than just messing around with a video camera, or watching someone else work without being able to interact. But all the same good experience can offer more than either weak teaching, or schooling where a student doesn't connect.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Remember, in my example, there was no mention of film school, just "good education". Example (B) in my previous post, the "education first" method, was based on the use of a tutorial DVD, not a school. I'm not knocking film school either, mind you, but rather fundamentally saying that getting educated by skilled teachers who present the material in a clear, well organized way, whether from film school, books, DVDs, a private teacher, an industry insider/friend or any other means, is going to be a lot more effective than method (A).
And yes, the quality of the teacher/school/DVD/whatever is very important. Buyer beware there, as in all things. And certainly, the student needs to be fully engaged in learning. School is to a great extent what you make of it. Too many college students unfortunately are there for the wrong reasons, and will come out at the other end with little to show for it.
For myself, the ship sailed long ago where attending a full-time film school is concerned (I'm no longer exactly what you'd call young). Night classes are certainly a possibilty, as I did for acting, but for now, I'm devouring books, manuals, DVD tutorials, and places like this for education on filmmaking. That, along with that irreplaceable thing called hands-on experience (I have a pretty nice HVX-based setup) is my program for the present : )
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I may be a little late in posting this, but...
Wouldn't it also depend on the resources you have?
I am seriously considering a film school because I really have no other way of learning.
I do not live in California nor do I plan to move there unless for school. I don't know anyone in Chicago for who I could work with and learn from.
Now, this comment could be pushed aside due to ignorance, but if film school is an option, but working on a set is not (as is my present case), then yes, film school is necessary. If working on a set is an option, but school is not, then no, film is not necessary.
Now, of course if both are an option then your choice becomes more difficult.
Wouldn't it also depend on the resources you have?
I am seriously considering a film school because I really have no other way of learning.
I do not live in California nor do I plan to move there unless for school. I don't know anyone in Chicago for who I could work with and learn from.
Now, this comment could be pushed aside due to ignorance, but if film school is an option, but working on a set is not (as is my present case), then yes, film school is necessary. If working on a set is an option, but school is not, then no, film is not necessary.
Now, of course if both are an option then your choice becomes more difficult.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
How do you think over half the board is learning ?
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Why wouldnt you have the choice of working on a set?
I'm close to Chicago, so there's definitely stuff available to me, but it's not something I can do right now because of school and such things.
I'm in highschool right now, so as of now I'm doing a lot of reading and just trying to gain knowledge and also put together some short films.
I'm in highschool right now, so as of now I'm doing a lot of reading and just trying to gain knowledge and also put together some short films.
Its funny, I see a lot of comments on here about people going to film school and then graduating only to begin working as a PA. Thats an example of someone who wasnt doing what they were supposed to be doing in film school, making contacts and networking your ass off. I am sure that there are plenty of graduates out there who are working as PA's, but thats just becasue they are most likely introverts. Do your internships starting your junior year of college, dont be an introverted art freak and then when you get out you will most likely have a nice job and not be working as someones b$#ch.
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J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
That's one person's spin on things.
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:zombie_smiley:
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:zombie_smiley:
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
Knowing how to netowrk and market oneself and being introverted are not one in the same.
That is absolutely incorrect. Networking is what got them those PA positions.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
I think his point is there is no reason why positions at that level can't be had while you're still in school.
Many people do nothing more than study while they're in school - then when they graduate they think - great, now what? Many times they wind up taking entry level positions which they possibly could have had without going to school at all, which leaves alot of people feeling as though maybe they wasted their time and money going to filmschool in the first place (which is essentially the entire disucssion going on in this thread).
If someone goes to school - but does a good job of remembering that they will, someday soon, be out in 'the real world' - and works to get some PA jobs and internships under their belt before they have that diploma, then they can be in a much better position once they graduate.
At the end of it all they will have no only a film degree, but also a resume of 'real world' experience.
That's all I think he was saying - I didn't really see anything controversial about it.
Well, except maybe the phrase "introverted art freak"
Exactly, once you become a junior you are allowed to work as an intern for credit. Do your PA work for those two years, not after you graduate. This is why it is important to go to a school that has good industry contacts, they can place you in internships that would be almost impossible to get unless you were a student of that particular school. So instead of interning for "Nobody Productions", you might be working for Universal.
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