Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200

That's what I thought, but didn't want to state it as fact until knowing for sure. The confirmed 2k is very nice, albeit I can't see how many people (including myself) would actually be using it.

I'm more interested in the VFX capabilities as well as the thought (which I'm sure if it has been confirmed) that 1080p/60p exists.

Getting antsy over here...
 
And maybe I'm not reading it right, but did he say 2k across all framerates? Does that mean 2k Slow mo as well? O_o;
 
Yes there'll be 2K slow-mo, but as to how slow, that's not finalized yet. At NAB he handed me a card that showed proposed frame rates and frame sizes, and IIRC it was 36fps @ 2K.
 
They do, but not necessarily at 60p, they can run at almost any scan rate between 2 and 60 fps.

The problem isn't how the internals work, it's in how to get all the data out of the camera. There's only so much data that'll fit in the gigabit ethernet data port, so there may be some restrictions on trying to extract 2K resolution at 14-bit color, uncompressed. Juan's the only one who can answer authoritatively.
 
Doing a filmout on a stock HVX looks fantastic, so doing one from the Hydra should look more-than-fantastic.
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I meant to ask you about that, Barry! Glad to hear it looks good.
 
Ryan E. Walters said:
Yes you'll get a better image out of an SI or RED, but for the lower end of the market, the Hydra is a very appealing addition to the tool kit ....
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Lower end? Can the human eye really discern the difference between a movie digitally projected from Hydra output vs. RED output?
 
On a 4K projector, certainly.

On a DVD, probably not a chance.

On a high-def DVD? Hmmm, that's where it would get interesting. I suspect that the Red would still be notably sharper, but the Hydra would probably be more than "good enough".
 
I still don't buy all this 4K stuff though.

I've worked in film digital post-production for 10 years now since the days of Cineon.
99.9 percent of the film shots I've worked on have been 2K, which holds up to Cinema projection very happily after being filmed out on a Genesis CRT or Lightning laser recorder.

The only time we worked 4K was with any aliasing issues in almost horizontal/vertical lines, and star fields.

I've sat in screenings where we've put 4K and 2K together, and people, on a pixel level, haven't been able to discern which was which.

I remember the total PITA of working 4K though, 4 times as much data, over 4 times longer/slower to work on in Shake/Cineon, and I just don't know why anybody in their right mind would want to work at 4K for longform projects.

I'm not adverse to resolution - in a previous life I was a transparency retoucher doing 4K, 5K and 8K work, and it's a wonderfull thing on a still image. But as a moving sequence? No thanks...

On the other hand though, extra colour depth is always appreciated, especially when you start throwing the grade around.
The industry standard in film has long been Cineon 10-bit log files (or DPX, same data but with a different header), equivalent to 14-bit 4:4:4 linear.
It means you are able to work on a 'flat neg' image, but with a switchable 'film contast' LUT on your monitors, and grade up or down accordingly inside this projected print range.

Both the Hydra and RED will allow you to work like this because of the expanded range they capture. A bit like working with RAW images in stills photography.
I've always thought of shooting with the HVX, or jpegs with a stills camera as shooting on transparency film, where you pretty much have to hit your exposure spot on, with a small latitude for grading.

Cineons, RED or RAW is your negative film, with a far higher dynamic range, hence the ability to grade more.

I'll just continue shooting quite happily with my HVX, as I've done with jpegs with stills for years, concentrating on proper lighting and exposure, rather than having the luxury? of lighting loosely and grading later.
 
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electricpig said:
I'll just continue shooting quite happily with my HVX, as I've done with jpegs for years, concentrating on proper lighting and exposure, rather than having the luxury? of lighting loosly and grading later.
Click to expand...

Well said.

I've heard it said before, and I agree with it: "If you know how to light it doesn't matter what camera you use. If you don't know how to light it doesn't matter what camera you use."

I must admit however, having the extra color depth is a great thing- especially when it comes to VFX, green screen, or other color manipulation. :) I'm really interested in seeing the results of this Hyrda mod.
 
That wasn't the question. You're asking a different question now.

No movie theaters use 4K now, that I know of, and for that matter hardly any use any manner of digital projection for showing films. I don't know the exact number, but my guess would be that there are less than maybe 2% of the theaters in the world equipped for any manner of digital cinema projection. Wild guess though.

If digital projection catches on, and I think eventually it will, it will probably be based around a standard such as the Digital Cinema Initiative. And the Digital Cinema Initiative specifies 2K or 4K. Assuming they get much acceptance with that, there probably won't be many, if any, 4K theaters in the next five years. If it was 4K only, maybe they would have a higher percentage.

Wild guess? Less than 5% of the theaters in the world by 2012 will have digital projection, with maybe 1% having 4K capability.
 
Barry, i heard somewhere between 2% and 5% using digital cinema projection, so you're close. The majority are still projecting in 35mm at 2kres.

Of course, as you know, the higher the res and latitude the better the filmout.

and it feels AWESOME if people realize with a moded HVX what they can do and concentrate in how to do it, rather than ***** about it.

RED= $25,000 -$40,000 HYDRA=$3500

you choose, and Juan please unleash this baby soon.
 
Can't vouch for a filmout, but considering what a digital projection looked like @ like on the big screen (HVX+M2 and naked HVX), I couldn't see the Filmout being any less-than-spectacular. Realistically? After seeing it, the HVX can do the job depending on the project.

The Hydra pretty much ices the cake, along with whatever new features come with an HVX200A.


I think the major thing I'm looking forward to with Hydra would be 1080p60p and Uncompressed imagery. Hoping to see a LOT less compression artifacts going on.
 
Just my two cents:

I think what's great about the HYDRA solution for most real indie filmmakers, is that you have the HYDRA solution for making indie flicks with a chance of hitting theater(s), AND you have the basic HVX200 for lower end filmmaking and videography... Lot's of workflow options for the working class filmmaker.

Most people here, I'm guessing, will do mostly comissioned work, and then hopefully get funding for a project (e.g. art film) here and there. RED or any other 4k solution is cool if you're just doing films, and yes I've read that it is usable for videography, and low end work, but I think the HVX200/HYDRA would probably fit the bill a bit better for the majority "jack of all trades" filmmakers here.

I could be totally wrong. This is just a thought.
 
Hey Everyone,

I'm hyped about the Hydra, but before I get my hopes up, I got a question. Some people on this forum state that 2k shouldn't matter for indie filmmakers because it is not possible to work with 2K (in post)? Is it because it eats up more HD space? Or because NLE's can't handle 2K?

Why is working with 2k not possible for indie/low budget filmmakers?

Thanks
 
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