Screw Premiere - I'm switching to Vegas

rsbush said:
I agree that Vegas is the least picky NLE and the most intuitive. I don't particularly like the interface and the way it forces you to work but that's just personal preference. It's a great program. I'm glad it's working for you.
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That's another great thing about Vegas

The entire interface can be customized to your demands
 
jade8472 said:
It's probably the pulldown that weren't removed.

But I agree with saturnin that this thread is played out. Chris, I think you should start a new thread in the Vegas section of the forum with a less negative title to discuss your technical issue.
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..i would agree with both statements here. i was going to let this live here a little longer out of sheer grace, and then just move it to the vegas forum where it should be. but i concluded that ive already done the first part. so as youve noticed, it has been moved. its much better suited to a place where people can help you with your current app then here where its not really doing anything for anyone who uses your old app. for any PPRO users who want to follow it, they will know where to find it.
 
I am a Premiere user considering Vegas. I have bought three Sony VAIOs and all came with Premiere. Why? I was looking at a new VAIO yesterday and I was sure that is would come with some version of Vegas right. No, it comes with Premiere. For a company like Sony to have Premiere installed instead of their own software just doesn’t make sense. That was just FYI.

I want to know how Vegas handles HDV footage. Does it use cineform as a intermediary? If so is it realtime or do you have to render?
 
I used Premiere consistently for a year on a number of projects and never had any major problems to speak of. Version 2.0 on WinXP w/SP2. I had long projects, short projects, effects intensive projects, etc. and Premiere was always an excellent solution for me.

I recently switched to Mac & FCP. Final Cut is an incredible NLE and superior to Premiere in many ways, and that is the NLE I will be sticking with. There are just a few features and interface issues that I prefer in Premiere over FCP, which says a lot for those items in Premiere (most notable is the time rate stretch tool... can't believe FCP doesn't have this! There are plenty of other ways to do the same thing in FCP, but the time rate stretch is very convenient).


I've heard lots of great stuff about Vegas but it has always been my impression that Vegas users are more production people than post production people... the type that edit because they need to. As someone whose favorite part of the process is editing, I couldn't ever work on Vegas as I need the incredible power and flexibility that FCP offers... even Premiere has that over Vegas....

In my un-official opinion, a ROUGH rating would go something like this I think:

iMovie = Very Consumer-ish
Vegas = Consumer-level
Premiere = Prosumer
FCP = Professional
Avid = Very Professional... but a pain in the butt and too expensive IMO
 
It always makes me laugh when someone who's never used Vegas calls it "consumer-level."

filmguy, if you don't think Vegas is "flexible" or "powerful," you've never spent more than five minutes on it. The audio and compositing tools alone leave every other NLE coughing in the dust, and I say that without equivocation or exaggeration.
 
Too true Dave

I wonder what people are forming their opinions when bemoaning Vegas ? Edit one short project with it and it becomes a revelation (It did for me)

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Jade ? A negative title about an NLE ? It's just software, not a personal attack on anyone :P

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David Jimerson said:
It always makes me laugh when someone who's never used Vegas calls it "consumer-level."

filmguy, if you don't think Vegas is "flexible" or "powerful," you've never spent more than five minutes on it. The audio and compositing tools alone leave every other NLE coughing in the dust, and I say that without equivocation or exaggeration.
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Not to mention that FCP JUST added the "Open Timeline" but Vegas has had that since, what, Version 4?

I, at first, thought Vegas was "consumerish," but that was mainly because of the interface. When I first started using Vegas, the thing that really creeped me out was the amount of power and intuitiveness that Vegas offered. One thing that comes to mind is the video crossfades without having to apply them. At first, I didn't like that because I was so used to Premiere, but now, I HATE having to apply crossfades. It's counter-intuitive, but I didn't even realize it at the time. And if a video editing app is making other applications seem counter-intuitive, well... I'd hardly call that "consumerish."

I mean... not knocking Premiere, but After Effects has the ability to change the timeline settings in the middle of a project... why doesn't Premiere have this option? Vegas does. FCP just added it.

If I'm not mistaken, you can't apply Beziere Masks to your footage in any other editing app. You have to go out to another app, like AE. Or the audio capabilities... Soundtrack Pro is the program you have to go out to and then the audio controls seem great. Vegas already gives you that in the timeline. I was watching the demo for Soundtrack Pro and they were showing that you don't have to apply crossfades, you just push the audio tracks together and it auto-crossfades. Then they showed that you can pick what type of crossfades/fades to apply. While that video was playing, the narrator was saying something about "Professional, Intuitive controls." Well, since Vegas already offers that in the timeline, the exact same feature, then it too has "intuitive controls," but in the same app, not in a different one.

I'm not bashing any other app, I'm just giving my opinion. Vegas has it's flaws too. Before 8, the titling stuff was pretty much useless... If you forget to add someone's name in the middle of the scrolling credits, you have to erase everything from the bottom all the way up to the position you want to place the credit. Things like that... Plus the fact that it's moving toward supporting "Sony only" products, etc... That's a BIG mistake in my opinion.

PS - I still love Premiere, it has things that Vegas doesn't... like the ability to speed up your footage beyond 1200%.... but there are workarounds in Vegas for that.
 
I think Vegas is a great program, don't mistake what I am saying. When I am referring to professional VS consumer, I don't mean the interface or intuitiveness.... it has to do with the flexibility and power beyond just editing, but input/output as well. There is a reason why post houses don't use Vegas. The format and hardware support offered in FCP is very professional level, and Vegas can't match this.

When I say Vegas is on more of a consumer level, I mean that it does everything most consumers want it to do - and very well - BUT, not everything professional users want and need it to do. Vegas users, how many of you work on large projects between a team and share assests, exchange EDLs, output to film, etc. using Vegas?

I think some of the features Vegas offers are great. Masks & audio crossfades on the timeline, for example, without opening a seperate app. That's nice and convenient. But that is exactly what I mean - most professionals will WANT to open a seperate app anyway. If I am doing compositing, I want a fully featured app for that kind of work, not something I can do in the timeline. Same with audio - when I move to audio-phase, I will be doing a lot of exacting audio work and want that in a seperate app. That's not to say it's not convenient to have that in Vegas, but when I refer to professional VS consumer I'm not talking about convenience, I am talking about overall power.

When I think of Final Cut Pro, I don't think of "Final Cut Pro the NLE componenent" I think of "Final Cut Studio" - the whole suite is really just one big app, it ships together and doesn't seperate.... and it is broken up into different components that blend perfectly. In that sense, Final Cut Pro IS Soundtrack Pro, Color, Motion, etc. It's just the power each of these apps offers warrants having it's own app, and each app is so tightly integrated I might as well be opening another window within FCP.

Saying Vegas is on a consumer level vs FCP being on a Pro level isn't an indication of the quality and intuitiveness of it as an editor, but it's overall ability to meet the needs of professionals. That said, I *personally* also prefer the interface and work-flow that Premiere, and more so, FCP offers.
 
Very valid points. I understand exactly what you're talking about when you say you want an app that is for one specific task. Personally, I wish Vegas integrated with AE (obviously that will never happen) because I think AE's tools for Visual FX and Motion Graphics are much better. In a way, FC Studio is like one big app... you're right. It really is just a matter of preference. Honestly, I've handled three feature films in Vegas with ease. Any Visual FX, I just rendered out to Uncompressed to AE or simply did them in Vegas. Honestly, I'm actually looking into switching to Final Cut eventually just because that's where all the jobs are. Plus, Vegas is being geared toward SONY products and that's annoying.

But as of right now, handling my features in Sony Vegas is the way to go for me. As soon as I have the money, I'll probably switch to FC Studio. They're all good edting applications. It's kinda pointless to argue over what's better. I just like how Vegas has almost everything in one app.

Bottom line is... use what works for you. If the app you're using isn't cutting it for you, then switch to something you think will be best for you.
 
You can do all that with Vegas and another $800 worth of software, too . . . if you want to compare software "suites." Vegas can be an integrated "component," too.

But 90% of the time, it's not necessary; the tools are already there.

Yes, many professionals "prefer" to open a separate app, yadda, yadda, because they've always done it that way. And sometimes, the extra 10% of functionality is needed. But that doesn't make it always the right way, or most efficient way, or the best way, of doing something. Only the traditional way -- and Vegas does befuddle people who are used to doing things the "old" way, the way of NLEs which were designed to copy the really old ways of doing things . . . because that's how professionals were used to working.

I dunno . . . if you prefer that, then that's your preference, and God bless ya -- but it really sounds to me like the elderly legal secretary who once told me that doing footnotes on a manual typewriter is more "professional" and really "not that bad," and that using Word to do it keeps you from having complete control over the margins, page breaks, etc. . . .

(And with what hardware and formats is Vegas lagging far behind? Vegas's timeline is, and always has been, far more "flexible" then FCP's. Even now, with the supposed "open timeline," FCP still doesn't play different formats in their native format -- it does an on-the-fly conversion to the timeline format which is dependent on your machine's horsepower, whereas Vegas just handles it natively.)

So, use whatever you want to use, whatever works for you, and if that's FCS, then good for you . . . but dude, seriously, if you're going to make sweeping statements about the usefulness of a different system, at least try to make yourself conversant with it before you do. Otherwise, you're just trolling.
 
Or, think of it this way . . .

Is a Mac a "professional" tool? Does it have the hardware compatibility of a Windows machine? The software compatibility? Which computer do more (many, many, many, many more) "professionals" use? And if more professionals use Windows (which they do), then where OS X departs from Windows, isn't that less professional?

What of its major selling (or at least marketing) points? Ease of use? Not complicated? The iLife suite, with its ability to do "life stuff," like organizing photos, videos, and music? The tight integration with iTunes and iPods? Isn't that all . . . pretty dang consumerish? And that's the stuff it's supposed to be good for, where PCs are just stodgy boring work machines?

So . . . are Macs just consumer machines? Fit for soccer moms and your kid sister, but brushed aside when you want to do some real work?
 
Who cares, really? There's no accounting for taste. Sony Vegas is the first NLE I tried out when I was starting out five years ago. I hated it. The interface, the layout, the controls, the media manager, everything. I tested Final Cut Pro for a while and it clicked right away. I've been using it ever since.

But I wouldn't dream of saying one is better than the other. I use FCP because it feels right to me. I like it and that's all that matters. Are there areas where Vegas does better? I don't doubt it. And the opposite holds true as well.

Each package has pros and cons so why is it that there has to be an ultimate victor? Every current pro NLE option is perfectly capable of delivering fantastic results, so the rest boils down to personal preference. Which is stupid to argue about.
 
filmguy123 said:
I think Vegas is a great program, don't mistake what I am saying. When I am referring to professional VS consumer, I don't mean the interface or intuitiveness.... it has to do with the flexibility and power beyond just editing, but input/output as well. There is a reason why post houses don't use Vegas. The format and hardware support offered in FCP is very professional level, and Vegas can't match this.

When I say Vegas is on more of a consumer level, I mean that it does everything most consumers want it to do - and very well - BUT, not everything professional users want and need it to do. Vegas users, how many of you work on large projects between a team and share assests, exchange EDLs, output to film, etc. using Vegas?

I think some of the features Vegas offers are great. Masks & audio crossfades on the timeline, for example, without opening a seperate app. That's nice and convenient. But that is exactly what I mean - most professionals will WANT to open a seperate app anyway. If I am doing compositing, I want a fully featured app for that kind of work, not something I can do in the timeline. Same with audio - when I move to audio-phase, I will be doing a lot of exacting audio work and want that in a seperate app. That's not to say it's not convenient to have that in Vegas, but when I refer to professional VS consumer I'm not talking about convenience, I am talking about overall power.

When I think of Final Cut Pro, I don't think of "Final Cut Pro the NLE componenent" I think of "Final Cut Studio" - the whole suite is really just one big app, it ships together and doesn't seperate.... and it is broken up into different components that blend perfectly. In that sense, Final Cut Pro IS Soundtrack Pro, Color, Motion, etc. It's just the power each of these apps offers warrants having it's own app, and each app is so tightly integrated I might as well be opening another window within FCP.

Saying Vegas is on a consumer level vs FCP being on a Pro level isn't an indication of the quality and intuitiveness of it as an editor, but it's overall ability to meet the needs of professionals. That said, I *personally* also prefer the interface and work-flow that Premiere, and more so, FCP offers.
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Another mistatement through and through.

It's like going in circles. Vegas is as powerful and flexible (and in some instances even moreso) than FCP.

Period. What make or break option does one have over the other ? I suppose that depends on its importance to you.

It's a matter of preference. FCP has a hold merely on the Apple block. I wonder if Vegas and FCP were cross platformed and not hindered by Mac Clones or PC Users limitation on variety ?

It seems Mac users speak of FCP based it being the only logical NLE for their OS needs.
 
Yes! David, that's EXACTLY what I was trying to say about Vegas. :laugh: People are so used to the traditional way of working that when someone comes along with something revolutionary, people don't want to adjust because it's foreign to them. It's like the digital vs film debate.

If I can do all of the stuff I need to in one app, why shouldn't I? I mean, the reason I'm using Vegas is this... I can do everything I need to (at this moment in time) in it, from sound mixing and sound design, to some visual fx, FAST editing, color grading, etc... for advanced color grading I'll go into AE.

It's just a different way of looking at things. For me, it's better than the traditional way.
 
Daygola814 said:
Before 8, the titling stuff was pretty much useless... If you forget to add someone's name in the middle of the scrolling credits, you have to erase everything from the bottom all the way up to the position you want to place the credit. Things like that...
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That is NOT true. To insert a name, you just click on the block the the left of where you wanted the name added, press "Insert", and a new blank line is INSERTED. Then you type in the new name without affecting ANY of the names below it.

There are a LOT of misconceptions about the credit roll tool. Could it be better? Certainly. But it's not really as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have an entire newsletter article written on it in Vol 2 #9 of my newsletters.
 
David, while I agree with you and virtually never use the credit roll, there are still a LOT of misconceptions about that tool and what it can and can't do. Inserting and deleting rows is one of them.
 
Oh, I totally agree. I've never found it as onerous as a lot people tend to think it is. It, like much of the rest of Vegas, simply approaches titling from a different perspective as traditional titlers. It's there to get the text on the screen -- and then everything else you'd normally do in the titler, you do with all the other tools of Vegas.

Is this the best way of doing it? Debatable. But it's very little-understood that it's the way you're supposed to work with it.
 
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