RED Officialy Shipping Next Friday -- thoughts? Any feelings?

milksac said:
Twenty years ago people were stoked about Panasonic's MII technology. Unfortunately those that invested heavily in MII ended up with nothing to show for it except a loss on the balance sheet.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing.
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My first employer used MII in the biggining and as long as you didn´t had to deliver to BetaSP it was fine.
If there was a loss on someones balance sheet, than it probably only was because he was dependant on clients (maybe bigger networks) only accepting BetaSP.
Otherwise it probably was because of bad business strategys.
If you´re a production company and adjust your workflow to the RED, the only downside will be having these stupidly big 4K files floating around and not playing on your PSP :2vrolijk_08:
Also, there will be no format war for some time with RED, since there is no real contender (4k for 35000$ anyone?)...
This baby is just as real as a 6000$ handycam shooting variable framerates and just as the HVX it won´t fit all bills but a lot (and most of all enough to take it´s place in history...).
 
Red is not currently licensing its REDCODE RAW format to any other vendors . (Apple only)

Meaning:
If you prefer Avid, Autodesk or Adobe products for post work you will be required to jump through a series of hoops before you can edit our footage.

I question the business practice of punishing your customers for not using FCP.
 
milksac said:
Red is not currently licensing its REDCODE RAW format to any other vendors . (Apple only)

Meaning:
If you prefer Avid, Autodesk or Adobe products for post work you will be required to jump through a series of hoops before you can edit our footage.

I question the business practice of punishing your customers for not using FCP.
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I completely agree. The workflow is paramount, not the camera itself. The camera is a small part of the overall worklfow. I have to admit though, not too many NLE's handle 4K and the realm is left only for 35mm.
 
milksac said:
Red is not currently licensing its REDCODE RAW format to any other vendors . (Apple only)

Meaning:
If you prefer Avid, Autodesk or Adobe products for post work you will be required to jump through a series of hoops before you can edit our footage.

I question the business practice of punishing your customers for not using FCP.
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You seem to not know about RedCine. You import the Redcode raw into it then export any codec you want. So Red will support any NLE under the sun by virtue of transcoding. Your comment seems more designed to piss on Red than to address the issue.

Also, they are working with Avid to get native support. Apple just happens to be the company that adopted it more quickly.
 
Just saw the Prores clip. It looks really friggin' sweet. I can't wait to see some controlled shoots.
 
shawneous said:
You seem to not know about RedCine. You import the Redcode raw into it then export any codec you want. So Red will support any NLE under the sun by virtue of transcoding. Your comment seems more designed to piss on Red than to address the issue.
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I know about Redcine. FWIW, Redcine isn't shipping yet. The current workflow is to transcode using Red Alert and then import into your NLE.

Redcode Raw and Redcine are two seperate workflows. What I mean by punishing the customers is forcing them (them being customers using any NLE besides FCP) to transcode the footage instead of using the raw camera data. The transcode time slows down the workflow.

shawneous said:
Also, they are working with Avid to get native support. Apple just happens to be the company that adopted it more quickly.
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Gimmie a break - Apple didn't just happen to adopt it more quickly.
Red licensed Redcode Raw to Apple. Red holds the keys to the kingdom, they decide which companies will be licensed to use Redcode and which will not. At this point they have limited the licensing to Apple. I don't understand why Red would limit the licensing of Redcode.
 
shawneous said:
You seem to not know about RedCine. You import the Redcode raw into it then export any codec you want. So Red will support any NLE under the sun by virtue of transcoding. Your comment seems more designed to piss on Red than to address the issue.

Also, they are working with Avid to get native support. Apple just happens to be the company that adopted it more quickly.
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Right you are, Shawn. That's what comes from making statements based on just a little bit of knowledge. It has been RED's goal all along to support multiple editing options. Apple was first since so many of those involved in RED are Apple users themselves. But they never wanted that to be a limiting factor. Also, Apple jumped on board early in the process, believing in what was going to happen.
 
milcsac

Give us a break !

It just came out and has only been in development for what, a year ? (Can someone confirm the timeline?)

Give things to time to work out. Everyone will catch up and Red is not punishing anyone. You're simply repeating yourself 'Red / Apple, Red / Apple ...'

I say props to Apple for jumping on board. Someone had to.

-

The reality is, buy a Mac if you can't wait.
 
stephenlnoe said:
I completely agree. The workflow is paramount, not the camera itself. The camera is a small part of the overall worklfow.
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But should it be?

The overriding issue should always be what your final image looks like.

If a camera can give you an image that no other camera can (not saying it has to be Red, but say, Camera X with the kickin' image), and that's the image you want, I'd say everything else should adjust.

After all, once it's out of your workflow, the only thing that matters is how it looks. It doesn't matter what you cut it on, or what your workflow was. No one watching it (and they're the ones paying you) cares.

I don't understand why you'd entertain compromising on the image (i.e., choosing a camera which doesn't give you want) just to continue with a current workflow.
 
Absolutely agreeing with Jimerson. Honestly, people made the workflow conform for the HVX? Why should it be any different for RED ONE?

You'll adjust to have that image, I'd suspect. But, again, I'm not you guys so I wouldn't know.
 
I missed that one

I agree with Dave.

I'd rather shoot 35mm and edit on a flatbed than shoot 16mm and edit on an NLE (concerning workflows)
 
When my Red arrives, I'm buying a Mac Pro. Why? Because Jarred, and Graeme, and Jim Jannard, are all big Mac heads. Like it or not, there's handwriting on that wall -- the Mac is going to have top-level support.

I wouldn't ever expect Sony Vegas to support the Red, heck, they aren't even supporting AVC-HD from Panasonic or Canon, much less Red. I would expect Avid to get on it eventually, since the Red is going to have some impact in Hollywood and Hollywood's an Avid town, but: Avid still doesn't support 1080/24p from the nearly-two-year-old HVX and it doesn't support 24p from the 2-year-old HD100, so... don't count on it anytime soon.

Whereas the Mac has Redcode already implemented. Apple was in Red's booth at NAB, and Red was at Apple's booth at SMPTE Australia. I can read handwriting on the wall. The best support is likely going to be on the Mac platform, even though they say it will be available for both.

Red licensed Redcode Raw to Apple. Red holds the keys to the kingdom, they decide which companies will be licensed to use Redcode and which will not. At this point they have limited the licensing to Apple. I don't understand why Red would limit the licensing of Redcode.
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Who says they did? Who says that they didn't go to every NLE manufacturer and offer it to them, and the other NLE guys may have just said "no thanks, call us when you have 20,000 users."

Yes Red controls who licenses RedCode, at least they do if they have brains and I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Red has brains. But they CANNOT force any other NLE vendor to implement support for the Red. Just making it available (and it may be available at no cost to the NLE manufacturers, for all I know) does *not* mean they'll implement it! Kudos to Apple for being first to implement support, just like they were first with somewhat comprehensive HVX support.

The cost of a Mac Pro is no big deal in context with a Red; I'm already shelling out somewhere around $30,000 so the new Quad or Octo Mac will add, what, $3,000? 10%? Big deal. But at least I know it'll have proper support and will likely always have leading-edge support.

I'm no Apple fan, I don't use FCP for many reasons -- mainly because it has the worst P2 integration of any major NLE. But the simple fact of the matter is, from where I'm sitting right now, it looks like Mac is the way to go for a Red user. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but it does mean that it's the way it is and it's probably going to be that way for a while.
 
Barry_Green said:
Who says that they didn't go to every NLE manufacturer and offer it to them, and the other NLE guys may have just said "no thanks, call us when you have 20,000 users."
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From Reduser.net
---------------

Red is not currently licensing its REDCODE RAW format to any other vendors
though we have made that request to them so we can build better integration
between Red and our products.


Regards,


Matt
--
Matthew Allard
Director of Product Management
Avid Technology, Inc.

___________

The original thread for reference.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3980
 
Red is not currently licensing its REDCODE RAW format to any other vendors
though we have made that request to them so we can build better integration
between Red and our products.
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Well, I can't imagine why they wouldn't license it to Avid then. If Avid's asked for it, and they haven't given it to them, that's bizarre.

Thanks for pointing that out. Now let's hope there's a really good reason why they haven't been able to come to terms with Avid; it seems it's hard enough to get Avid's attention (witness the poor JVC HD100 folks trying to cut 720/24p HDV, I think (unless I'm mistaken) that Avid still doesn't support it!)

Seems like FCP and Avid are the two platforms that need support. Nothing else is all that relevant, because Hollywood uses FCP and Avid. And Red is aimed at Hollywood and little-Hollywoods across the globe. It'd be nice to see it in Premiere too, and I'm sure sooner or later Marcus Van Bavel will come out with a Raylight-type product for Premiere and Vegas, but man, they gotta support Avid...
 
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Yeah, that's all I'm saying. From a business perspective it doesn't make any sense to impose limitations on potential customers. Hopefully they will add raw support for Avid and Adobe in the near future.

Regarding workflow it depends on the glasses you're wearing. If you're a small indy film maker where turnaround time isn't critical then a slower workflow is no big deal. But if you're a bigger shop with multiple edit suites a fast workflow is crucial(transcoding is not a fast process).

Somebody already said it's far too early in the game. In another year we'll have a better understanding of the post workflow.
 
Barry_Green said:
The cost of a Mac Pro is no big deal in context with a Red; I'm already shelling out somewhere around $30,000 so the new Quad or Octo Mac will add, what, $3,000? 10%? Big deal. But at least I know it'll have proper support and will likely always have leading-edge support.

I'm no Apple fan, I don't use FCP for many reasons -- mainly because it has the worst P2 integration of any major NLE. But the simple fact of the matter is, from where I'm sitting right now, it looks like Mac is the way to go for a Red user. Doesn't mean you have to like it, but it does mean that it's the way it is and it's probably going to be that way for a while.
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You can contact me when you migrate from PC to MAC for comprehensive information and consultation on hardware performance, upgrade paths, and compatibility..

I'll even fly out to SC as part of the package.

Just kidding... well, maybe.
 
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