Call On All Hv20 Owners - To Test For Dropouts

jenningsp

jenningsp

Well-known member
CALL ON ALL HV20 OWNERS - TO TEST FOR DROPOUTS

there have been quite a few reports that the HV20 randomly drops out every now and then.

I myself have replaced my HV20 twice because of this issue. i tested with several different tape brands in both HD and standard versions... i used head cleaners and one HV20 actually started chewing tapes after 4 hours of use and two head cleanings....

what is a drop out?

it's when the video cuts out for a second or two.
usually this is because the heads on the camera need cleaning and a simple head cleaning tape will fix it.... but this seems to be an issue with the HV20 it's self.


i think this issue mightn't have been noticed on a large scale for a couple of reasons... the dropouts are so sporadic that people who use the camera only a little bit might never come across it... some people mightn't be aware what dropouts are or that it's a problem with the camera... people using the camera for short takes ( 2 min, 3 min, 30 sec) might have just been lucky and not come across it yet.


how do i test?

the easiest way i've found is - put your camera in front of your TV and record a full hour of tape - the constant movement and sound of television make a dropout easy to detect.

then import your footage onto your computer - make sure you've got 'create new clip on start/stop' selected - after you've imported your footage, if there is more that one file, then you've had a dropout.

you can got to the same time in the time code on your tape to check it really was a drop out and not something else...

report back with what brand tape you were using and how many drop outs, if any, occurred in an hour.


i've found -

JVC PRO HD - 7 or more an hour
SONY HD - at least 1 an hour
SONY Exc - at least 1 an hour
 
Hi mate. Im just wondering where in the tape the dropouts are occuring for you. Usually at the head of any tape I record bars only as its a prone area. Conversely I rarely use the last 5 mins of a tape.

You are right though I havent used mine a lot. SO this may be something I havent come across. But it has had 3-4 full tapes through without a dropout. Moslty stuff my wife has shot with it.
 
on the JVC's the dropouts where randomly all the way through.. arpox every 6-10 min
on the Sony's - one time it happened at 1:58 another tape it was 45:23.

i've done tests... it isn't a problem with the tapes. i hope this isn't a problem with all HV20's. i just know other people are having issues and wanted to find out how many people.
 
jenningsp said:
on the JVC's the dropouts where randomly all the way through.. arpox every 6-10 min
on the Sony's - one time it happened at 1:58 another tape it was 45:23.

i've done tests... it isn't a problem with the tapes. i hope this isn't a problem with all HV20's. i just know other people are having issues and wanted to find out how many people.
Click to expand...

Are Sony and JVC both the same "wet" lube? Mixing tape lubes is a recipe for drop-out.

I know people like looking for the "best bang for the buck" for DV tapes. But I archive all my footage, so I'm willing to pay more per tape. I'm currently use Panasonic's Advanced Master AY-DVM63AMQ miniDV tapes, I haven't done much recording but so far no problems.

...Angelo
 
I use the "el cheapo" panasonic tapes. Also, just like ncje said, I don't use the last 5 mins of the tapes. I haven't had any problems so far, (sound of knuckes striking wooden table) although I haven't captured hours and hours of footage as I have only had the camera a few weeks.
 
I've had whole big bunches of dropouts with my HV20. It's one of the only issues I have with the camera. It happens with alarming frequency.
I must confess that I do use the el cheapo JVC tapes.

With my DVX, I never had a single dropout.
 
Like this?

Like this?

Are your dropouts similar to this one (10.8MB drop at second 6)?
I had at least a couple of these in 3 hours and a half of shooting (new tape, Panasonic or TDK, I don't remember)... They don't look as dropouts to me tho... HDVsplit doesn't even detect them as drops...
And I don't think it's the tape: I have a cheap Panasonic I keep using for samples (I rewrote it at least a dozen times) and it never drops...
I'm still wondering...

--
Fra
 
A dropout on HDV results in a half-second of footage "freezing". If you've already captured the footage into the computer, it'd probably look like what you're (ShadeOfBlue) showing, but if you watch it from the original tape you should see the video lock up for half a second.
 
Barry_Green said:
A dropout on HDV results in a half-second of footage "freezing". If you've already captured the footage into the computer, it'd probably look like what you're (ShadeOfBlue) showing, but if you watch it from the original tape you should see the video lock up for half a second.
Click to expand...

So you say HDV dropouts are not like DV's? No random blocks and pixels around the frame anymore?
It doesn't happen so often to me anyway...

--
Fra
 
Well, it depends on which flavor of HDV. Sony and Canon 1080 HDV deals with dropouts differently from JVC HDV. With the 1080 versions, there's no visible frame corruption because the system just drops the entire GOP. A half-second of footage disappears. But with the JVC approach they don't do that, they treat it more like DV -- the group continues, but the corruption gets perpetuated throughout the group. So if there's scragging from a dropout, it'll affect six (or 12) frames, but the rest of the frames still update.
 
Here's an example of what I'm calling an HV20 dropout. But maybe it isn't a dropout?

Anyway, I seem to get this problem a lot with my HV20. It's like a little glitch in the recording. Usually I can edit around it, but at times it can be most inconvenient.

Frame grab:

1184954328.jpg
 
^ What tapes are you using? I was having drop-out when I was using the standard Panasonic SD tapes, but once I switched to the Master Panasonics & the Sony HD's, the problem went away.

<knock on wood>

oops, I just saw this:
Sean Michael said:
I've had whole big bunches of dropouts with my HV20. It's one of the only issues I have with the camera. It happens with alarming frequency.
I must confess that I do use the el cheapo JVC tapes.

With my DVX, I never had a single dropout.
Click to expand...

I thought your post was the 1st one! :)
 
Actually I mistyped, in that I've been using el cheapo TDK (not JVC) tapes. Still, I used these same tapes with my DVX and never had a single dropout.

I'm going to pick up a pack of the Sony HD tapes today (not sure if Best Buy carries the Panasonics) and see if that helps.
 
Sean Michael said:
Actually I mistyped, in that I've been using el cheapo TDK (not JVC) tapes. Still, I used these same tapes with my DVX and never had a single dropout.

I'm going to pick up a pack of the Sony HD tapes today (not sure if Best Buy carries the Panasonics) and see if that helps.
Click to expand...

Sean - have you cleaned your heads yet? That's helped my dropout problems but I still get about one per tape (Panasonic MQ).
But I notice that sometimes the dropouts are in different places on the same tape when I watch my footage again. I haven't captured enough footage to my computer to see any dropouts there. But I'm wondering if it's more of a playback than recording issue since like I said, I can see dropouts in different places on the same tape during different viewings. The only good news here would be if the data on the tape was OK and it was the playback mechanism that was causing the "dropout". I also noticed today for the first time, my camera would not playback the last three minutes or so of a tape that I watched previously to the end without problem.
 
Just for statistical value, here's my experience with my HV20: No dropouts in a week that I've owned it, shooting a wedding (B-roll), lots of outings with my daughter and general testing. I'm using the TDK tapes that Costco sells for $20/8 qty.

I also own two Sony HVR-V1Us and I have not yet seen a dropout on any of these 3 cameras. I read that the error correction in HDV is 8 times more robust than it is for DV.

My observations with DV are that dropouts (seen as brief "sparklies" or blocks in portions of 1 frame) seem to occur about once every couple of minutes on average. HDV is a blessing in this regard, as it seems to have put an end to that annoyance.
 
Kyser said:
Using Panasonic tapes, not a single dropout to report. Using mine since launch with great frequency. Just ask my wife... :laugh:

Cheers,

Mike
Click to expand...


Sounds interesting Mike!

Send me some video if you like and I will very very carefully check for dropouts! :D
 
Sean Michael said:
Here's an example of what I'm calling an HV20 dropout. But maybe it isn't a dropout?

Anyway, I seem to get this problem a lot with my HV20. It's like a little glitch in the recording. Usually I can edit around it, but at times it can be most inconvenient.

Frame grab:
Click to expand...


I have some new experiences with HDV that are relavent to your problem, and I need to know some more information from you as far as what software environment you were experiencing this dropout problem in.

The reason I am posting is because I shot some footage in late August and experienced what looked like a dropout in the timeline, at which point the audio repeated itself like an echo, and the video jumped to a latter point, leaving the audio 2s14f behind the video for the remainder of the capture.

I initially blamed it on the camcorder, but I am learning from others that this problem is common in Adobe Premiere Pro CS3. I am being told to use HDVsplit to capture or use Vegas 7/8 to capture, as CS3's capture is flawed. If you are using Adobe software for capture, this might be the problem and not the camera. It is something to consider.
 
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