Boycott Michael Vick, His Sponsors, The NFL
- Thread starter They Live
- Start date
Well I'm sure his "work" will have a lot more facts then anyone here on the forum has and will decide his fate. Unless of course Roger Goodell is a dvxuser forum member and comes here to get all his information.......
Like usual, just stating my (naive at times) opinion.
DDP
Like usual, just stating my (naive at times) opinion.
DDP
DDP, not trying to flame you, just responding with a different opinion.
Do I think we should put this guy in a cell right now before a trial? No. Do i think he knew about it and participated? Yes. This is based on reading the actual indictment and looking up several reputable secondary sources. Of course the point of the trial is to rebut the indictment, so we'll see.
Luckilly for us and his team and sponsors, he is going before a judge who has earned a reputation for having a "Rocket Docket" and not allowing cases to linger on.
I too think it is a little different from the example you gave ...
If there were witnesses that put you at the property you owned and there was a kennel large enough to house 60 dogs built on your property ... then saying you knew nothing about it it would strain credibility to say the least, especially if there were other witnesses who said you purchased the property expressly for the purpose in question.
And if you were convicted of cruelty to animals and the details included SLAMMING THE DOGS AGAINST THE GROUND until they died (from the actual indictment) ... then I can bet your job would give you a severance package or start finding a way to get you out of their based on some exaggerated or previously overlooked issue with your job performance.
At the very least, you probably wouldn't want to work there since you would be extremely ostracized.
Also I think it's in these athletes' contracts that they have to maintain a certain code of conduct since they are a part of an entertainment franchise and not doing so could affect their value added to the franchise.
REGARDING THE CASE
Lest I pop off about this without knowing the facts of the indictment ... I've done some research ...
Here's information from large and small newspapers supporting the above statements. I've intentionally avoided "sensationalist" blogs, etc., except for the Smoking Gun, where I site the actual indictment.
NOW ... if there were some dogs found there I could buy that he didn't know about it. But 60 dogs, 56 graves, and A COMPOUND!!!! Plus NEIGHBOR TESTIMONY and 4 KEY WITNESSES, 2 of whom are not indicted ....
No way. Not unless he hasn't been to the property in years, which again, the neighbors statements say otherwise. The police were there for 1 day and saw the kennels and compound. So unless he'd NEVER been there there is just no way.
From USA Today (link)
Also he is going up before a judge that is known for being very tough, but fair, and uninterested in celebrity B.S. with few overturned cases.
... no way.
Do I think we should put this guy in a cell right now before a trial? No. Do i think he knew about it and participated? Yes. This is based on reading the actual indictment and looking up several reputable secondary sources. Of course the point of the trial is to rebut the indictment, so we'll see.
Luckilly for us and his team and sponsors, he is going before a judge who has earned a reputation for having a "Rocket Docket" and not allowing cases to linger on.
ddp said:
I too think it is a little different from the example you gave ...
If there were witnesses that put you at the property you owned and there was a kennel large enough to house 60 dogs built on your property ... then saying you knew nothing about it it would strain credibility to say the least, especially if there were other witnesses who said you purchased the property expressly for the purpose in question.
And if you were convicted of cruelty to animals and the details included SLAMMING THE DOGS AGAINST THE GROUND until they died (from the actual indictment) ... then I can bet your job would give you a severance package or start finding a way to get you out of their based on some exaggerated or previously overlooked issue with your job performance.
At the very least, you probably wouldn't want to work there since you would be extremely ostracized.
Also I think it's in these athletes' contracts that they have to maintain a certain code of conduct since they are a part of an entertainment franchise and not doing so could affect their value added to the franchise.
REGARDING THE CASE
Lest I pop off about this without knowing the facts of the indictment ... I've done some research ...
Here's information from large and small newspapers supporting the above statements. I've intentionally avoided "sensationalist" blogs, etc., except for the Smoking Gun, where I site the actual indictment.
NOW ... if there were some dogs found there I could buy that he didn't know about it. But 60 dogs, 56 graves, and A COMPOUND!!!! Plus NEIGHBOR TESTIMONY and 4 KEY WITNESSES, 2 of whom are not indicted ....
No way. Not unless he hasn't been to the property in years, which again, the neighbors statements say otherwise. The police were there for 1 day and saw the kennels and compound. So unless he'd NEVER been there there is just no way.
From USA Today (link)
- despite MV's claims he was not at the house several NEIGHBORS (i.e., not gold digger chicks who hope to get a cash settlement for rape allegations) have told the police that they saw him there on more than one occasion.
- he has been under federal and local observation for this since April.
- 7 dead dogs were initially found on the property.
- April 24: Michael Vick's cousin Davon Boddie is arrested in Hampton on drug charges. According to court papers, he gives his address as 1915 Moonlight Road in rural Surry, and police obtain a warrant to search his home for other drugs and paraphernalia.
- April 25: Police serve the warrant in Surry and find numerous dogs and what looks like a dog-training complex of dark-painted buildings in the woods just behind the house owned by Vick. They call animal-control officers, who count 66 dogs and see what they say is evidence that dogfights had taken place there. Police obtain another warrant and seize the dogs and various items.
- July 2: Authorities allege in court documents that a dogfighting venture called Bad Newz Kennels had operated at the Vick property for the past five years. The U.S. attorney's office files papers seeking federal government ownership of about 53 pit bulls that were among the dogs seized from Vick's property.
- There are 4 cooperative witnesses (count em 4) that allege Vick masterminded the whole thing, having purchased the property right after the 2001 draft expressly for the purpose of starting a dog training, housing, and fighting facility.
- based on the witnesses, that Vick and others killed dogs by hanging, electrocution, and SLAMMING THEIR BODIES AGAINST THE GROUND.
Also he is going up before a judge that is known for being very tough, but fair, and uninterested in celebrity B.S. with few overturned cases.
... no way.
JDS- I understand your opinion, I'm not being sarcastic in my responses. You've obviously done a lot more research then I have and if he is guilty (I stated earlier that I can't stand the guy) I hope they make an example of him.
The gist of my input is to let the system run it's course. It's so easy to get carried away without the first hand facts and then throw in how something like animal abuse affects us on an emotional level and we can loose sight of why we have a system in the first place.
I'm just thankful we all have a place to share our opinions without getting killed for them- cheers
DDP
The gist of my input is to let the system run it's course. It's so easy to get carried away without the first hand facts and then throw in how something like animal abuse affects us on an emotional level and we can loose sight of why we have a system in the first place.
I'm just thankful we all have a place to share our opinions without getting killed for them- cheers
DDP
I didn't think you were being sarcastic ... I just didn't my tome to seem like an attack on you.
Strong emotions is right - so I channeled my energy into seeing just how strong the case was. And it's pretty strong I think.
While there is a lot of physical evidence that dog fights took place on his property, it will be interesting to see if they can come up with a receipt or anything to corroborate the witness testimony that he knew what was going on - that would really strengthen the case, obv.
Seems like the police followed procedure pretty strictly on this one, so hopefully there will not be issues like in the OJ case (please lets not get into his guilt or not) just saying that the police being in a hurry and maybe being overzealous clouded that case, so it's a good thing that this case was built so ploddingly and methodically, their first warrant for example, was turned down then they either strengthened their case or sought support from a higher judge or something and were eventually able to get one.
So hopefully the gears are set for the system to effectively run its course in a more efficient way than it did in the OJ case and will therefore the outcome will hopefully be less dividing.
Strong emotions is right - so I channeled my energy into seeing just how strong the case was. And it's pretty strong I think.
While there is a lot of physical evidence that dog fights took place on his property, it will be interesting to see if they can come up with a receipt or anything to corroborate the witness testimony that he knew what was going on - that would really strengthen the case, obv.
Seems like the police followed procedure pretty strictly on this one, so hopefully there will not be issues like in the OJ case (please lets not get into his guilt or not) just saying that the police being in a hurry and maybe being overzealous clouded that case, so it's a good thing that this case was built so ploddingly and methodically, their first warrant for example, was turned down then they either strengthened their case or sought support from a higher judge or something and were eventually able to get one.
So hopefully the gears are set for the system to effectively run its course in a more efficient way than it did in the OJ case and will therefore the outcome will hopefully be less dividing.
ugafan
Looking for a woman
1. as the legal owner, vick would have to sign for these structures to be built on his property.
2. vick is a registered dog breeder.
based on 1 and 2, it is reasonable to assume that vick both knew and approved of these dogs being bred on his property. the key is whether he knew about the dog fighting and treatment of these animals.
2. vick is a registered dog breeder.
based on 1 and 2, it is reasonable to assume that vick both knew and approved of these dogs being bred on his property. the key is whether he knew about the dog fighting and treatment of these animals.
unless of course the stuctures were built without permits, which I couldn't find any info on.
but they sound so extensive it would seem like his brother or cousin, I forget which, the guy that was living there would have called him and said, "hey man thanks for letting me live here for free and stuff. Can I build a giant dog compound in the woods?" Of course even if that happened the defense could say that conversation never happened even if it did.
his dog breeding website has been taken down though ... lemme see if I can find that (broken) link.
but they sound so extensive it would seem like his brother or cousin, I forget which, the guy that was living there would have called him and said, "hey man thanks for letting me live here for free and stuff. Can I build a giant dog compound in the woods?" Of course even if that happened the defense could say that conversation never happened even if it did.
his dog breeding website has been taken down though ... lemme see if I can find that (broken) link.
From ESPN website (linK)
here's the now broken link for the breeding company which it has been proven that he owns "Mike Vick K-9 Kennels."
http://www.vicksk9kennels.com
here's the now broken link for the breeding company which it has been proven that he owns "Mike Vick K-9 Kennels."
http://www.vicksk9kennels.com
ugafan
Looking for a woman
i haven't been able to find the website, all i could find was some website that quoted what was on it...
We breed specifically for ourselves first and foremost, and when/if we do sell puppies to the public, all prospective buyers are carefully screened. All puppies come with a written guarantee of health and sales contract. We believe in responsible ownership and breeding with ethics.
We do not promote, support, or raise dogs for fighting and will not knowingly sell, give, or trade any dog that may be used for fighting. Also, we will not sell a puppy if you live in a city, township, county or state that has any ordinances whatsoever against the APBT - no matter how mild.
Our dogs are all family pets and our puppies are all socialized and home raised.
Should you have any questions about anything or of any breeds, please don't hesitate to call or email me! I am always here to help or to answer any of your questions.
Thank you for your interest in our dogs and enjoy your stay.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
My problem is, the system is seriously flawed. Seriously guilty people- people who have ADMITTED guilt in murder, are released after a short stay in a Dormatory. Because these are only animals, he'll only see about a year in prison.
I miss the old days.
I miss the old days.
Ok I want to say first off I hate cruelty to animals in any way, shape or form. But what disturbs me is this is such big news, when there are so many people suffering at the hands of others - sounds cliche but thats part of the problem.
Luis Caffesse
Admin
Well, given that it's an extreme case (involving many dogs and a large setup) and it also involves a celebrity - I think it's understandable why it's gotten the coverage its gotten.
I'm not saying it's right - just saying its understandable.
And the celebrity involved. If he was an unknown it would be two minutes on the nightly news and then over.
I can see why though people are up in arms, if guilty... hmm what to do with him - then agan if he is found guilty he will probably say he was molested as a child - I know I did wrong please GOD forgive me.
They Live
Well-known member
NCJE,
I understand your point. I work for a nationally televised true crime show, all I'm going to say.
I read about human cruelty everyday. I write scripts about it, I produce stories on it, I write online articles about it. From what I know, the cruelty allegedly dealt out by Vick and his co-patriots is shocking and disgusting to say the least. And this is coming from a guy who has to regularly look at crime scene photos.
I understand your point. I work for a nationally televised true crime show, all I'm going to say.
I read about human cruelty everyday. I write scripts about it, I produce stories on it, I write online articles about it. From what I know, the cruelty allegedly dealt out by Vick and his co-patriots is shocking and disgusting to say the least. And this is coming from a guy who has to regularly look at crime scene photos.
That's not an uncommon sentiment.
"Why spend money on dog shelters when there are people starving in the world".
At the most reductionist level the argument is infallible: Human life is more important than animal life, and even if that's not true a lot of our own kind are suffering so why not put resources there.
But that's drastically oversimplifying things and is sort of like saying don't pick up a stray candy wrapper until all toxic waste dumping has been cleaned up.
Also the thing about human suffering - it's based on selfishness same as the dogfight thing sure - but is perpetuated through complex political, social, dogmatic, and economic systems. This is just inducing suffering for the sake of inducing suffering or deriving entertainment and profit from it. Right or wrong this is not something we feel we have to accept on some level because experience has taught us that is just the way the world works and we can't really change it.
To me it's the senseless sadism of this. This is not torture to ensure a political regimes power or to get information. Don't get me wrong - that is worse. That is horrible.
But this is supposed to be a regular human being in our midst that allegedly would "slam" a an innocent animal against the ground until it was dead.
Get that image in your head: grabbing a dog by it's neck or hind legs and "slamming it against the ground" until it stops whimpering, twitching, crying ...
The senseless brutality of that should shock people. And again not to find out enemy positions, not to punish someone for blasphemy against man or God ... but because it is "fun".
And this is one guy right in our community. There is probably a sense that - hey we can do something about this. It at least seems that our justified rage will not be wasted and cause us to be bitter.
Also people are drawn to certain causes as they hit them and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. And usually the people who are saying "why devote your resources to helping animals when people are suffering" (and I know that's not what you were saying per se) usually aren't doing a damn thing about people suffering.
This thing though - it's just stupid, senseless, outrageous cruelty. No one has been killed over a lover's quarrel. No one has been shot robbing a bank. This is just for fun by a real live human being walking around amongst us - not some monster overseas.
It's immediate, it's shocking and it's legitimate. Doesn't mean any thing else isn't legitimate, but people can shut down and not do anything if the next thought is - now I have to get this angry about war, about the environment, etc.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
Man, have I got a story for you! Any sort of compensation for a good story?
Just to add:
I know we are numb to a lot of very bad things in the world.
I think it is worth pointing out that there are things out there as bad or worse than this that we should think about too, but I think stifling the few sensitive nerve endings that have caused people to react strongly to this would only caused more numbness.
I guess I'm sort of saying rather than looking at this like "why is this such a big deal considering this that and the other thing", why not look at it as "finally people are outraged about something that's not right" we've been shook up a little. "at least we're not totally dead."
dunno if that makes sense or not, I've just resolved a long time ago to not weigh good causes against good causes, so that I would not second guess myself weighing if whatever I or others were doing was as good as what we could be doing.
It's a good point about the celebrity thing bringing it to the forefront as well.
I think that also legitimately increases the outrage quotient as well though, because this is not some struggling guy with problems we can understand. This is someone that has achieved a level of success and resources that most of us can only dream about and this is how he puts that success and those resources to use. That has to add to the sense of injustice for regular Joe's.
I know we are numb to a lot of very bad things in the world.
I think it is worth pointing out that there are things out there as bad or worse than this that we should think about too, but I think stifling the few sensitive nerve endings that have caused people to react strongly to this would only caused more numbness.
I guess I'm sort of saying rather than looking at this like "why is this such a big deal considering this that and the other thing", why not look at it as "finally people are outraged about something that's not right" we've been shook up a little. "at least we're not totally dead."
dunno if that makes sense or not, I've just resolved a long time ago to not weigh good causes against good causes, so that I would not second guess myself weighing if whatever I or others were doing was as good as what we could be doing.
DVX-Ben said:
It's a good point about the celebrity thing bringing it to the forefront as well.
I think that also legitimately increases the outrage quotient as well though, because this is not some struggling guy with problems we can understand. This is someone that has achieved a level of success and resources that most of us can only dream about and this is how he puts that success and those resources to use. That has to add to the sense of injustice for regular Joe's.
