Nobody complaine about editing mpeg2 (HDV) ?

[futureman]

Um...you are converting the files back out of Cineform to another format when you render...right?

I am not sure what you are asking, but i notice a huge drop in quality, using cineform to convert my m2t's and then playing back the cineform avi in media player classic...

 

[DammitJanet]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that's the whole point. you convert your clips to Cineform so they can be edited more easily, and then when you have your project cut the way you like, you undo the CineForming and return the clips to .m2t format before rendering them out to whatever you like (.wmv, .mov, etc.). You don't render the Cineform .avi's out. At least, I don't see why you'd want to.

 

[Huy Vu]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that's the whole point. you convert your clips to Cineform so they can be edited more easily, and then when you have your project cut the way you like, you undo the CineForming and return the clips to .m2t format before rendering them out to whatever you like (.wmv, .mov, etc.). You don't render the Cineform .avi's out. At least, I don't see why you'd want to.

Actually, you would be capturing your footage from your camera in the Cineform codec using a separate capture utility that's included. Going from native mpeg clip to Cineform and then back to mpeg again just cost you quality.

 

[scharky]

There should be no loss in quality by converting your M2T files to cineform. I actually find the cineform file to be much better able to handle color correction than the native m2t files. The Cineform workflow should be like this.

Capture footage from camera using cineform HD link
Setup your 1080p or 1080i timeline accordingly
edit, color correct etc. just as you normally would.
export to your final deliverable, whatever that may be.

Seriously, once you have tried this workflow no matter how fast your system, your realtime and render times will be much faster. Your working with a much more robust file type, and the cineform codec can go through many more reencoding cycles than an m2t file could ever dream of.

The thing that got me about editng m2t files wasn't the realtime playback, that was usually no problem, it was scrubbing the timeline. Whenever I scrubbed, especially backwards the computer would choke, and when your trying to go in for some detail work it's just no fun at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if your shooting HDV invest in Cineform, your life will be easier with it.

 

[Nektonic]

scharky,

Quick question for you. How do you monitor your timeline in full screen HD?

The reason I ask is that I want to get Cineform for Premiere Pro 2 (and CS3 when I upgrade).

Right now I am trying to get my nvidia FX560 card to play the timeline to an external HDTV via component, but that doesn't work, so I figure I'll just get the Black Magic Intensity card and run that as a second card. However, the problem is that Cineform states on their site that Black Magic's Intensity card currently does not work for fullscreen monitoring of the timeline in either Cineform NEO or AspectHD.

What I am trying to figure out is if there is any other way to monitor fullscreen without spending an arm and leg on an expensive card.

I would love to have Cineform but right now if it limits my choices of monitoring to a full screen, then I might have to wait.

 

[Elton]

The thing that got me about editng m2t files wasn't the realtime playback, that was usually no problem, it was scrubbing the timeline. Whenever I scrubbed, especially backwards the computer would choke, and when your trying to go in for some detail work it's just no fun at all.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if your shooting HDV invest in Cineform, your life will be easier with it.

I'm curious about this, Scharky. Are you talking about scrubbing a complex, multi-stream timeline (titles, fx, etc) or simple edits and transitions for the most part? If you're talking about scrubbing relatively simple timelines, I guess I don't understand why this would be a problem. I have a 2 year old G5 with FCP and HDV scrubs just fine--a lot like DV, actually, until you start trying to do multi-stream stuff and motion effects.

Native HDV editing is actually pretty tolerable in Final Cut, until you start needing lots of RT stuff other than basic transitions and color correction.

I wonder why HDV doesn't scrub very smoothly in PPro? I have a hunch that it might be that m2t editing requires demuxing (separating video and audio track) MPEG2 on-the-fly, and this may be more difficult particularly when scrubbing backwards.

Final Cut Pro HDV is actually demuxed upon ingest via firewire and this may help the performance some.

You're right though--complex edits really benefit from working in a robust intermediate format like CineForm or Apple's new ProRes codec.

 

[Huy Vu]

HDV works fine on PPro for me, scrubbing forward and backward.

 

[Nektonic]

HDV works fine on PPro for me, scrubbing forward and backward.

Same here for me too. Although I haven't taken it to the extreme yet, like a 2-3 hour long timeline duration or tons of effects. I get pretty good realtime previews on color correction, etc.

The thing I am currently worried about with straight mpeg editing is that the render times are horrendous. It will probably take me 2 days to render out a 2 hour long final AVI. Does anybody know what the render time difference is with Cineform?

 

[Nektonic]

Oh, forget a question for Elton.

Do you need any special hardware to monitor your timeline in FCP on an HD monitor fullscreen (second monitor from the interface monitor)? Basically, do you need something like a Black Magic Intensity HDMI card, etc?

 

[Elton]

For full-time live monitoring to an actual HDTV you would need the Intensity card as a minimum. However, if you only need to see the video full screen on your computer monitor, the desktop cinema mode in FCP works fine.

 

[tommy nguyen]

Render time for me right now working with HDV is a headache. Render 3m clip take 20m. That is say testing out with Cinema Craft SP2 by using avid QT reference then downto DVD. I would say that is true because the system have to shrink all that big resolution down to DVD resolution. For me PPro with the timeline I'm working with 2-3 hours I'm kinda scare. I think FCP is good but I'm have not use apple since it is come out so it is kind bad. I'm stuck with Avid now so will try to get anything to work out it. I love the color correction of avid that i don't see any editing system have near. Love that slow motion on the avid media composer too.