Got a small job for somebody... any takers?

brock2621

brock2621

Well-known member
I'm shooting a film and i need a 3d shot. Its going to be about 5-10 seconds long and i was curious as to how much it was going to cost for somebody to do it on here.

This is the shot:

I need a shot that starts out black and pulls out of a small hole into a huge circular glass room. As the shot is pulling out of the whole a liquid begins to flow out of it and fill the circular glass room (shaped like a cylinder). As it begins to fill up as the camera pulls to the back of the room. The room fills completely with water even over the camera. The camera then moves to the side and thru the glass and it ends up being a syringe being filled filled with poison. My transition will be in the middle of the glass as it's going through it.

I was wanting somebody to use BLENDER for the liquid as i was extremely impressed with the physics in the video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4DCHYMuWjME

Any thoughts from anybody?
 
I just happen to be experimenting with water displacement & effectors right now. I'll try experimenting with the shot you want but I still have to learn a couple things in the dynamics dept. So I'm not saying I'll be able to do it for you but if I have something presentable in a few days I'll give you a shout back.
 
aight thanks man... I appreciate it! Could anybody link me to their portfolio as well? I would love to see people's work :)
 
Yes, I did muck around with fluid back in the days, PM me if you want rates, not going to be cheap though, fluid simulation is is mega time consuming. And if your going to be using materials such as glass and fluids, then caustics are involved, which raises the render times through the roof, all this adds to the expense.

I'm not really overly impressed with Blenders fluid simulations, Glu3d and Real FLow are usually the more high end stuff.

can you do a storyboard (hand drawn) because the description has really confused me again PM me.

This was done ages ago, I've grown alot since then :)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P0YJIwVz4ig (also lots of other tests, these are not my portfolia work, just tests)

see my other thread for my 3d work:

http://dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=63960

Anhar
 
Thanks Anhar,

I was looking primarily for somebody trying to get their work and name out into the public but I do have a small budget for the shot. There are only 2 in the story boards so far that I can't do myself. This is obviously one because of it's complications and the software required. I'll definitely draw something up and scan it to post on here. Hopefully i can do that sometime today. I appreciate your alls input.

~Brock~
 
Its okay, I did'nt say it was bad, but when you start comparing it with RealFlow, its a different league, things like entire ocean wave simulations can be done in realflow, also much more physically accurate flows, mixing fluids, object pressure etc...

Of course blenders free and realflow costs alot more.

I don't know much about V 2.44, things may have improved alot since then.
 
Yeah, I'd say they definitely have, especially in terms of object pressure, and particle accuracy, Every release I am blown away by the upgrades they make, really impressive.
 
I think I have something that'll work. I'll can post later today with a couple stills of what I have if your still interested.
 
Yeah that would be great! Lemme see it!

I decided to bring the camera out the back of the syringe for editing purposes. It would be too hard of a cut from the side glass to live action. But if it cuts to a silver then i can just pull from the back of the handle :) Anywayz, I drew up some stuff...







 
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I'm using a new technique from yesterday so I should be able to post something later today.

I was thinking about breaking up the shot into two segments. The first where the water begins travelling up the metalic needle then a view from within the glass body where it shoots out the body hole and begins to fill.

The reason to break it up is I can get better resolution for the water that way.
Think of the first shot like a sewer pipe with a rush of water coming in like in Die Hard 2.

If I do it all in one shot the particle size will be too big and it will look blobby in the first shot. And I'd be looking at a few hundred hours of render time to keep the resolution constant.

I should have the first shot up in the afternoon today, or at least some stills depending on the render time.

-What time frame do you need this completed for?


/ Actually I'll do two. Your shot as shown above and my own version. So you'll have a choice.
I start rendering in two hours (about 3pm cali time). Just wrapping up some preliminary setup stuff.

I hope you like alien green poison.

// update: I decided to bake the particles for your shot instead of rendering, which will take several hours.
So I think I have 6 sequences baked now. And one in the oven.
I'll let that run and be back tomorrow.

-What is this for anyways?
 
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Sounds great Raptor! I don't need this completed for a couple weeks actually. So don't waste time doing rendering this very second if you have something else pressing to do. This is for a shot I am doing for a short film i'm starting to film next month. I wanted to see if it would be possible to do before I committed my storyboards to it. I really appreciate your work on this Raptor! I look forward to some screen shots :)

Here is what the syringe will most likely look like...



P.S. What does "baking" the particles means... do tell.
 
Baking in 3D is a way to cut down on rendering time by attaching a certain effect/texture to something. The advantages are that you do not have to re-render that effect/texture for each frame. And there are many times where you don't need to render the same texture over and over.

Imagine baking as taking a texture (lets think of it as a checkerboard just for the heck of it) and telling the program "I have decided that this texture will suffice for "X" attribute. Then the program says, "Ok, no prob" and simply uses it over and over for the animation.


But you usually bake something that would be a pain to render, maybe a procedural texture, an occlusion pass, an optical effect like refraction or caustics, even particles. THings that are CPU intensive.

It's just a time saver that retains all the quality of the first initial render of it and applies that effect/look throughout the rest of the animation without having to redo it for each frame. Since so much in 3D is about rendering, baking is a way to take something that is normally a very long attribute to render, rendering it once, and then using that first render to be the attribute throughout the entire animation.

Clear as mud?

Good. Then let someone who knows a more than I do weigh in on the subject. My 3D skills are not nearly as impressive as most who post here, but since noone had yet answered your question, I thought I would give it a shot.



M
 
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I'm baking the particles because the particle animation is processor expensive. I basicaaly record the entire particle animations (fluid) first.
All of thier coordinates per each frame. Once the particle cooridinates are recorded I can load in that sequence and not have to recalculate for each re-render.
If I decide the camera is a little off in the shot, I readjust it and maybe change
lighting and textures then re-render. But the particle calculations are already done.

So it's like the water comes out of the tube, but I need to change the camera angle. So I can do that and not have to recalculate the water physics all over again. I can also change the water texture, lighting and so forth.

Rendering is still a small issue, but nothing compared to the physics & metaball calculations.

I can guarantee you the shot, but it wont be Die Hard 2-driving down the tunnel as I'd hoped.
(We'll I can but we're talkin major rendering time, like weeks 24-7.)

For the scale of fluid shot from within a syringe it's probably the most
technically accurate actually so that's good.
There is quite alot of realistic fluidity with gravity.
So the baked particles so far look quite good. Just need to work with the compositing end...tomorrow.

Still experimenting with time-vs-quality stuff.
Trying to find the right balance.

-zzzzzzzzzz
 
I can't wait to see it Raptor. I do have a question that might help us both out. Is there a way that you can tell me what program your using and then send me the file so i can render it? That way you wouldn't have your computer tied down for an extended amount of time. I have a pretty fast computer (3gb's of ram, multiple processors, 256mb GPU etc...) Anywayz, if you would like to do that and then just tell me how to render it I would be much obliged to. Again, thank you.
 
Thanks Matt for the xplanation. It makes sense to me. Basically replicating or duplicating a texture to cut down render passes?
 
I think, Raptors baking Particles not textures, I'm not sure what or how his 3d app does fluids.

As a side note, I also ran the simulation, I did have a hypodermic needle model (part of my digital asset) which is a detailed model, however after runnning the simulation, it produced errors when creating the surface, I'm thinking its to do with trapped particles in the mesh of the model, so I scrapped testing (it crashed my PC 3 times)

Anyway I could redo it with a simple proxy mesh (may work much better).

But now that you have shown me that new syringe, that means a remodel is in order.

Its all very possible from my inital tests, I could indeed do you a photoreal animation of that exact shot that you described in your storyboard, sadly I can not do it for free (simply because of the man hours involved + Huge render times).
 
Okay, So after you showed the type of syringe you wanted, I decided to model it.

I'm providing the sample here:

Model:

StainlessSteelSyringe.jpg


Wire Mesh:

Mesh_syringe.jpg


I might do some fluid renders later on.
 
brock2621 said:
...Is there a way that you can tell me what program your using and then send me the file so i can render it?
Click to expand...

I'm using Cinema 4D. I could send that project file or export it as lightwave or something. I don't know how the export would work in other programs though because I'm using thinking particles.

Also the physics are driving me crazy trying to get enough fluid throught that tiny hole (realative to the body) to fill the body in 10 seconds without it looking like tar. And trying the keep the viscosity and gravty looking correct.

I have one really splashy sequence done but it does not fill it up.
It does splash wildly against the lens though. Having it fill up with good splashing detail is proving to be a bugger, although it shoudn't be. But it is.

Anyways I'm redoing some shots again. It's kind of a hurry up and wait thing.
 
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