"Without Provocation" - a Norm Sanders (Envision) film

[Norm Sanders]

Lol! Nice Teddy squeeze, Norm. I hadn't seen that one. Thanks all for the feedback. We really had a blast filming this, even with the rain & windstorm from.....you get the idea. Norm really held himself together through some adversity throughout the shoot. Norm, you are a class act, and always a pleasure to work with. I appreciated the opportunity to step out of the box as well. Shawn, thanks for the SWAT gear too! I thought I was going to die of heat exhaustion from wearing it for so long! Whew!

Thanks, Rebecca, for the kind words. I'll have all the pics (there weren't very many) up for the cast & crew soon ... got some hum-dingers of you. :grin:

Commenting on the stress levels of the day, I've got a clip that shows about the extent of the stress I allowed to show on set. I have a rule that if the Director freaks out & shows a lot of stress, it can do nothing but pull down the rest of the cast & crew, so why bother? It's better to just channel it & have some fun. That said, here's the clip ... please keep in mind that I normally never swear onset, but since I'd been playing a character throughout the day that was using some pretty extreme language, it would just more naturally come out between takes as well, as was the case for I think everyone; even little Elijah (man that kid can cuss like a sailor - JUST KIDDING!).

Here's the clip

Rebecca is who I was talking to, directly across from me, as the camera was over her shoulder.

Nice film Norm! I have to say the visual style was very distracting and I would honestly liked to have seen the film without the filter. I know you were going for another style of film and right off the bat a filter such as this screams a cop to cover up a poorly shot/lit film. Which.... from the screen grabs on the BTS, doesn't seem to be the case at all. It seems like some shots had more of the filter than others which made it inconsistent. I felty scanner darkly for a bit and then straight to poor photoshop/graphic design skills.

...Overall, I think the action and energy kept the movie driving all the way to the end. I really dug the score and the reveal with bear was superb. That totally caught me off guard. Acting was OK, but the visuals just made it hard to really tell what was going on....

Thanks for the feedback, Justin! I'll look forward to having you see the non-animated look once the fest is completed for your thoughts! For the filter, it's not that any more or less was applied to some shots, but that the wide shots (probably the parts you're speaking of), didn't have the same lighting as the CU's, so it came out looking a little darker & probably a little more muddy. Also, I'm convinced that if this were shot HD, the filter would look even more different/better in many respects. I'd be curious to try it on something else in the future, if even just a smal 30 second test.

Is it just me, or does that bear look very, very uncomfortable?

LOL, man you always catch the subtlties! It does look uncomfortable, lol.

man on bear action always gets my vote even if it's a stuffed animal.

Thought the film was pretty cool, good pacing. the linklater effect worked cause it was only a short film. would've liked to see how it looks without though, just curious

Lol. Thanks, Wesley, glad you enjoyed it & thanks for watching. Again, I'll have a non-filtered version up next week.

 

[Weston]

hey norm...

I dug this quite a bit.

The shot choices and editing were very good. Better I think than anything youve done in the past. The style really fit the situation. I think the best part was that nothing was noticable. What I mean is there were no shots that say "look at me...i'm an awesome shot..." and I think thats great. Sometimes fancy shots get in the way of story telling and you didnt let that happen here.

Sometimes I liked the effect...(the linklater effect) and sometimes i didnt. I enjoyed it more when it looked smooth. Whenever it got really dark and there was more noise (from the effect) I dont think it worked as well.

The acting was good. I thought Rebecca D did especially well in this, my favorite line being "dont be and idiot!". I think the kid did nice job too.

The music was very good and I think it worked together with the sounds of thunder for a sort of creepy feel.

The story was alright..... (POSSIBLE SPOILER) I liked how you once again used misunderstanding and paranoia ...this time with drugs.

Overall I can't think of much to complain about. I dont think it was as good as your last film...but its pretty close.

nice job.

 

[David Jimerson]

I liked the look of it (though it kinda broke down in a couple of spots) -- and the handheld shots actually WORKED, and I don't like shaky-cam very much, so that's saying something.

Music was good, audio was good, nice play with the bear and the cell phone -- you took me in on the first go-around. I thought the editing was well-done, and it's probably the best-paced of your films so far.

Story-wise, well, it was all a bunch of yelling over something that . . . well, we don't know what, and that's a problem. I don't think it's enough that we know they're trapped in the house with paramilitary cops surrounding the place. We don't know a thing about these characters by the end, what they're after, and why they're falling apart now.

And . . . it wasn't really a spy movie.

 

[-zach-]

Here's the clip

I don't know if this makes me a bad person but I laughed at "Can you open her mouth?"

Maybe because I can relate to that situation. Has there ever been a higher level of stress on your sets or is this pretty much the most? Just trying to judge if I'm stressing myself out too much or if I'm okay.

 

[Charli]

The Scanner Darkly look to me was a distraction, I understand why you
did it, it was to make up for lack of content. Here's my gripe: the film starts
after 30 seconds of intro credits, it ends with 50 seconds of credit, good Lord man, it's
only a 6 minute film.

Though I did like some of the composites, the acting, particularly by you, was over
the top. I can't believe you made Rebecca semi-undress, when the others didn't.
I also think you totally miss the mark of the 'spy' genre. This felt more like
action flick than espionage.

Next time, try to use the entire 6 minute with content.

 

[chris f]

Standard Disclaimer: I've watched half of the films so far and have yet to see a bad film. Congratulations to every film maker, everyone did a great job. All my comments and criticisms are meant to be constructive and helpful and in no way am I trying to take anything away from what you accomplished.

Good: Very cool, seemed like an intense scene from a larger story, makes me want to know why they were in that situation. Cinematography was good. Really liked the reveal when the kid is on the cell phone. The score and sound fx really build the tension.

Not as Good: For about 5 seconds it seems like the layered effect wasn't on (1:24-1:28). Some of the dialogue seemed a little cliche, seemed like I had heard parts of it in other movies before. And to echo what Charli said (although I didn't mind watching it at all) singling out Rebecca with the undressing seemed a little too much of "let's show the audience how hot this chick is and then we'll get back to the story" (although there was a reason for it with the wire tap paranoia, but perhaps everyone should have had to unbutton their shirts?)

 

[cinealma]

Norm! Argh! Ok, one of those films that drives me crazy as a filmmaker. Because I really liked it. I love the tension. I think the "shaky camera work", which some alluded to but didn't feel to shaky to me, worked well. Acting was great. Definitely kept me riveted to my seat (especially when you've got a mother and her kid involved in a horrible situation).

Here's my two criticisms:

First, the "look" you applied killed the visuals for me. It also seemed like the the filtering effect also filtered a lot of grain, but maybe that's just how some of the scenery came out. I really would like to see this without the visual effect.

Second, the story. I was mad at you at the end of watching this because there was no payoff at the end. It just kind of ends. I wish there would have been a major turn near the end. You got me all wound up and then kind of left me there, and I felt like I was duped.

I hope I don't come off to harsh, because I really, REALLY did like this one. The score was fantastic and really heightened the suspense.

Good job. Thanks for screening.

 

[Ben Sliker]

Norm, it's great to see what you can do now in just one day.

I'm going to put my .02 in by saying that the look was distracting to me, especially after seeing the BTS clip. I liked it that way.

The acting was up and down, I think you are at your best when you have the loud voice on and are yelling at everyone. But way to be courageous with your content and pulling something together in such a short time.

 

[-zach-]

Umm, I still like the look. It's really cool and I don't think it's distracting... I think it adds to the movie. I'm not just saying that.

 

[Ted Arabian]

Wow Norm! I am so impressed with what you "threw" together for this fest. And that you shot that all in one day... even more impressed!

I really love the direction and the editing of this film. I thought that there was great tension and intrigue happening here. I really liked the camera work. The music is simply amazing! Herman... you are a god! And you have got the very best actress here on dvxuser in your films! Rebecca... your performance is flawless and filled with heat... both physically and in energy. Damn, I want to direct you in something!

The applied look to the film is not my favorite. I liked the effect on non-material items... walls, furniture, etc. but not on people. I thought that at times people looked like witches. I am sure that you only have so much control on whatever you did... and bravo to you for attempting and achieving such a look. It's just not my cup of tea.

I would liked to have seen a more exhilarating end. Something more between you and Rebecca... some twist, some dagger. Not you both just blowing up. Again... just me.

Overall, wow! What a great peice of work in such a short time. You should all be very proud!

Oh... two more things... first, how dare you speak to Rebecca like that! Secondly, shame on you for not lifting your shirt. You've got the body... show it off. (You made Rebecca do it! )

Great work!

-Ted

 

[Matt Harris]

Norm i really really liked it. it was intense, it was claustrophobic (although i would have liked to see a few wide shots or establishing shots) and i thought it was flat out acted well by you and everyone. Was there a grenade thrown at the end that blew you to smithereens? I like that, but wanted to hear a sound effect. Overall great job.

 

[Mark Harris]

Hey Norm, I thought this was all right. I thought the look was distracting only inasmuch as I didn't see any point for it. I thought it was a clever way to get around not having a lot of time for prod design or whatever, but storywise, I didn't see what it added. And for the same reason I thought it was distracting in Scanner Darkly. It removes the audience one more degree away from the actors. And these kinds of high-tension scenes really only work in my eyes when the acting is spot on and really accessible. It's what I'm working on in my new short as well. Anyway, I felt like the look handicapped the performances a little.

I think if you make another movie in a day, one thing that would really shore it up would be to take a little more time to really focus the story down to razor-sharp. Trim out all unnecessary beats and make sure they are super clear.

 

[ripupthehwy]

Nice film Norm. It had ALOT of energy and suspense. Didn't drag on and on as some films tend to. The visual effect was cool, but I too didn't see the need for it.

Cool!

 

[JOE BLO]

Gret energy in your film. The look was really cool. I loved the shot when you came back to the kid with the Teddy bear to discover he is on the phone. I really liked it. Congrats!

 

[Norm Sanders]

........Sometimes I liked the effect...(the linklater effect) and sometimes i didnt. I enjoyed it more when it looked smooth. Whenever it got really dark and there was more noise (from the effect) I dont think it worked as well.

.............

The story was alright..... (POSSIBLE SPOILER) I liked how you once again used misunderstanding and paranoia ...this time with drugs.

Hey Weston, thanks for all the kudos!!! I wanted to address just a couple of specifics on what you said. I think for the filter, the biggest thing I learned (if I were to every do it again) is to process different angles differently, due to the lighting. The wide shots, for example, really needed to be processed with different settings. Instead, I simply blanketed one look/setting for the entire film, which I believe is why it's working in some spots & not others. My mistake, but with the time constraints I didn't have any other choice than to not do it at all (honestly didn't even think about doing different settings until writing tis), but I'm glad I did it, just to have a different look if nothing else. After all, this film was about pushing limits for us, and doing things outside of the normal box we may typically work within, whether it was me, the DP, the talent, etc.

It was a completely rewarding experience & I'm glad we did it, as I think everyone else that was involved is as well. Anyway, thanks for helping me realize I should have done different settings! :beer: I'm also convinced that with less noise (i.e. shooting HD), this could have even more potential!

As for the misunderstanding/paranoia, I wonder if that's a deep seated interest I have, because I didn't really even connect it with WSF, but you just did. Man, you make me think!

Story-wise, well, it was all a bunch of yelling over something that . . . well, we don't know what, and that's a problem. I don't think it's enough that we know they're trapped in the house with paramilitary cops surrounding the place. We don't know a thing about these characters by the end, what they're after, and why they're falling apart now.

And . . . it wasn't really a spy movie.

David, thanks for watching & taking the time to comment! Appreciate the kudos on the camera work, and especially the editing ... since you're kind of a guru with Vegas, I take that as a high compliment!

For the story, I'll agree that it's more of a slice of a larger part, which I was concerned about early on. I knew it wasn't a complete book-end piece as WSF was, which not to toot a horn, but I'm not sure that Rebecca & I could have really picked anything else that so completely started & ended as well as that one did within the 6 minutes. But, this was a totally different idea, and we still felt that there was a core story in here.

Essentially, a group of people are robbing a house, looking for bonds. But, the wife is still there when she wasn't ... and she's saying the bonds are already gone! What's going on? Now all of the sudden SWAT's outside? Have they been set up? Drugged up Seller is convinced one of them is a snitch & must be wired, so as the group begins to implode (with Seller's maniacal paranoia as a catalyst) we see there's also a child in the house ... whom the mother's been trying to protect by saying he's gone. She simply wants these folks out of the house! They retreat downstairs as the phone begins to ring again (last minute-on-theset script change that I'll explain in detail why later), Seller's pissed at the woman fighting him & pursues to hit the woman once downstairs. Carter tries to intervene, and Seller nails him, convinced he's a rat. Linden is sarcastic in her remark "So now what ... ?", and Seller sees that as a great idea. As all hell breaks loose we break away in slow motion to see SWAT is now inside the house, rescueing the boy, and we flash back to see that they boy has been helping them via a cell phone. He had been 'spying' at the railing much of the time, listening without their knowing. When Linden is shot by Seller we speed back to real time (this SFX will be heard from the SWAT's perspective ... somehow got deleted in the final mix, will be back in for the final web/DVD versions), and come back to Seller & Robin having their stand off. However, before they can decide what they're going to do with each other, the Flash/Bang comes rolling down the stairs, ending a plan that had gone bad from the get-go.

Not that you asked for a full story, play by play, but hopefully you or others will see what we intended to do with it. Thankfully the spy definition/genre was opened up, so we've got some diversity in the fest. But I agree it's not a true spy film as you & I would normally think of.

Maybe because I can relate to that situation. Has there ever been a higher level of stress on your sets or is this pretty much the most? Just trying to judge if I'm stressing myself out too much or if I'm okay.

Referring to that clip, yes I've had equal levels of stress on the set, but can't say that I've really had more. What essentially happened is that this film was supposed to take place at night time, yet we were shooting in the middle of the day. And since I was a moron & wanted to keep secret how long the production was, yet PUT IT IN THE STINKING CREDITS, I'll spill the beans: It was supposed to be a 12 hour day (8am to 8pm), but turned into a near 17 hour day as most of us didn't leave till 1am or later.

Back to shooting in the middle of the day ... we couldn't afford to let the sunlight through, not to mention the constant color temprature change as the sun moved, so I wrapped the house with 2,000 square feet of plastic to block the sunlight from coming in all of Rebecca's beautiful windows, which they have in place for an amazing view. Severe wind & rain storms kicked in, and that gaffer tape did an AMAZING job for holding the plastic in place as long as it did, but finally gave out with about 2-3 hours left to shoot & we couldn't get it back up. Since the siding is cement board, we also couldn't use anything else (nails bent like toothpics) to secure it. So now we're stuck with only have our CU's done, and still the end scene to shoot! We opted at the last minute (much of which was credited to Shawn & Rebecca for thinking of it) to 'retreat to the basement', which took us into the theater room.

We had to block it all last minute, figure out new lines to say, etc. Once we shot ALL of that, then we still had to get back up stairs (now that it was dark), and shoot the remaining CU's, and some additional voice work. Since I was the last CU to be done, that clip you saw was probably around midnight, and I was just spent. The previous clip with "I squish you" was also late at night, with us all learning that Patrick could fall asleep standing up, lol!

I think every film will have different levels of stress or unforseen events, and you've just got to role with it & think fast on your feet. Anything else will just add tension to the group, which is typically only unproductive.

The Scanner Darkly look to me was a distraction, I understand why you
did it, it was to make up for lack of content. .....

Charli, I can't argue with your opinion that you felt the film lacked content. That's the beauty of this fest is that everyone can have an opinion & freely voice it. I'll try not to defend myself in this thread, but instead simply explain a choice or reason I did something & leave it at that. I DO appreciate you watching the film, and taking the time to comment.

That said, I don't believe you're qualified to know why I chose to use the filter, and please don't insinuate that I personally believed the story lacked content so therefore tried to distract from it with the filter. I simply applied the look to the poster & then thought it'd be cool to do it to the entire film. That's it.

I can't believe you made Rebecca semi-undress, when the others didn't. ............

I'm confused now. :huh: I never heard a complaint when you posted in WSF for the DramaFest, and I was the only one that revealed skin then. Also, as you can see below from your quote in our BERLIN thread (before we had to cancel production) that having a particular person show some skin wasn't an issue for you then either. So what gives now?

Norm, speaking from a girl's point of view, would you by chance, be taking off your shirt again... ha ha, bet you never thought you'd hear that in this male driven site, huh? ......

And to echo what Charli said (although I didn't mind watching it at all) singling out Rebecca with the undressing seemed a little too much of "let's show the audience how hot this chick is and then we'll get back to the story" (although there was a reason for it with the wire tap paranoia, but perhaps everyone should have had to unbutton their shirts?)

Chris, before I answer, I wanted to say thank you for the kudos, and yes, Herman really knocked the ball outof the park with both the score AND the sound design. There are a few tweaks we'll have with the audio, that I believe will even add a little more, but I'm extremely pleased with what he did for the festival version.

With regards to Rebecca's character, she wasn't the only one to reveal skin. Both my character and Anita's (Linden) did, but just wasn't shown in the particular angles I had to chose from in editing. We purposely had Robin wear a button up shirt as well, because we wanted there to be a moment between her & Seller where she threw daggers at him with her eyes as she unbuttoned each one. As the unspoken leader of the group (the calmer one, calling some of the shots), she was being forced to unbutton for this paranoid drug user with a gun on her. So that angle was of more importance than focusing on the others. Carter never got a chance to because the phone rings again.

And actually, if you read the script once it's available, you'll see that Linden was supposed to reveal AFTER Robin, but we were running behind, thing were hectic, etc. and she kept doing it at about the same time ... so we never got to focus on Linden separately after the fact.

.....First, the "look" you applied killed the visuals for me. It also seemed like the the filtering effect also filtered a lot of grain, but maybe that's just how some of the scenery came out. I really would like to see this without the visual effect.

Second, the story. I was mad at you at the end of watching this because there was no payoff at the end. It just kind of ends. I wish there would have been a major turn near the end. You got me all wound up and then kind of left me there, and I felt like I was duped.

John, thanks for the compliments you gave, and no you're not too harsh in the critiques! For the 'look', I'll look forward to having you view the non-filtered version. Should be up by Monday, after judging has closed ... I don't think I'd be allowed to put it up prior to that, but I'll check.

For the story, I THINK that once we hear a real 'boom' at the end, and a ringing noise (like one's ears would be doing after being in a room with a flash/bang, it MAY explain things better? That, or we could always add VO of SWAT coming into the room, showing they're not dead but only stunned, and it's all over? That was originally in the script, but Jeffrey Hawley (a writer I greatly admire the opinion of) thought it would be stronger to simply have the film end on the sudden impact theory. Again, I'm hoping the final sound design may help, not sure.

I think you are at your best when you have the loud voice on and are yelling at everyone. But way to be courageous with your content and pulling something together in such a short time.

Thanks, Ben! Lol, you know, I think I've heard that before ... that I'm a good yeller. Oddly enough, I do feel best in my performance when I've cranked it up into some intense emotion. Hmm, got to work on the diversity!

how dare you speak to Rebecca like that!

Ted, thanks for all the compliments & feedback!! One of the things I enjoyed about this was that the characters were in stark contrast to what Rebecca and I did in WSF. There, we were this loving husband & wife, seeking the greater good of locating our missing son. Here, we're a couple of crooks, looking for bonds, near hell bent on killing each other by the end, and cussing each other out!

 

[Norm Sanders]

Norm i really really liked it. it was intense, it was claustrophobic (although i would have liked to see a few wide shots or establishing shots) and i thought it was flat out acted well by you and everyone. Was there a grenade thrown at the end that blew you to smithereens? I like that, but wanted to hear a sound effect. Overall great job.

Matt, this is a huge compliment from you, considering I was GREATLY impressed with your film. I've yet to comment on any yet, because I'm still trying to watch them all (making comments in a Word file), but will get to your soon. Thanks for watching.

As for the grenade SFX, they're not blown to smithereens, but simply stunned by a Flash/Bang. SWAT don't kill unless they have to, so on entry they'll use a stun device, then come in with guns drawn, shooting at center mass of subject(s) only if necessary. That said, the SFX we had also ended up missing, something else that will be fixed in the final. There was a problem with the SFX file I uploaded for Herman, so he did the best he could but didn't know where I had everything at, and I was out of the country for about 5 days during the submission deadline. Again, it'll be fixed ... thanks for catching that!

Hey Norm, I thought this was all right. I thought the look was distracting only inasmuch as I didn't see any point for it. I thought it was a clever way to get around not having a lot of time for prod design or whatever, but storywise, I didn't see what it added. And for the same reason I thought it was distracting in Scanner Darkly. It removes the audience one more degree away from the actors. And these kinds of high-tension scenes really only work in my eyes when the acting is spot on and really accessible. It's what I'm working on in my new short as well. Anyway, I felt like the look handicapped the performances a little.

I think if you make another movie in a day, one thing that would really shore it up would be to take a little more time to really focus the story down to razor-sharp. Trim out all unnecessary beats and make sure they are super clear.

Mark, thanks for the feedback! As stated before, the filter was not an attempt to distract or get around anything. I simply liked the look, and believed it would help it to stand out visually from the rest of the entries. I'll look forward to having you & others watch the non-filtered version soon!

Also, good point on the story. That should probably always be the case anyway, whether shooting in one day or 10.

Nice film Norm. It had ALOT of energy and suspense. Didn't drag on and on as some films tend to. The visual effect was cool, but I too didn't see the need for it.

Cool!

Thanks! Again, look out for the non-filtered version soon.

Gret energy in your film. The look was really cool. I loved the shot when you came back to the kid with the Teddy bear to discover he is on the phone. I really liked it. Congrats!

Okay, Joe, where do you and Zach want me to send the money for saying you loved the look?! Lol, seriously though, I'm glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

 

[Paul Coleman]

Really liked it, Norm. Liked the frames, the edit, the look. (You already mentioned varying the look for medium shot vs. close-up.) Great work on the quick heroin sequence. And Rebecca's acting is bolted down. :beer:

 

[Herman Witkam]

I really love the direction and the editing of this film. I thought that there was great tension and intrigue happening here. I really liked the camera work. The music is simply amazing! Herman... you are a god!

Thanks man - I'm looking forward to seeing Spy Master

Music. Fantastic score, really drew me in!

Thanks man

 

[Norm Sanders]

Thanks, Paul, for watching & glad you liked it!

Ha, there's more props to you Herman than what you've just referenced above ... but I understand ... too many people singing your praises to be able to keep up with it all! :grin:

Thanks for being a part of this one!

 

[Ted Arabian]

Thanks man - I'm looking forward to seeing Spy Master

Well, don't cringe too much!