No More Bs - Here Is What You Need!!!

Just to again ask about the budget mics, I keep noticing that nobody has mentioned the Azden SGM line. I have read that when tested with a Rodes NGT2 and a Sen ME66, it rated rather high, yet a bit less pricey. Have any of you tried them? And would the dual purpose SGM2 be a better investment than the SGM1? I am looking for something that might cover as both an occasional boom/occasional on cam mic. What I currently have is an atr55, which just isn't quite as convenient as it used to be. By the way, cam is an HD100.

My current audio kit-
ATR55 (need to go)
Azden WR22 wireless 2ch lav set (need to go)
3x Samson R21 cardioid
nice DIY boompole ( really need a better shockmount, and get afore mentioned wind protection)
6' mic stand w/30" boom
Roland VS-880EX 8 track HDD recorder/mixer
cheapazz headphones (need to go!)
a few 20' xlr-xlr cables
a few 20' xlr-1/4" cables
several xlr-1/4" adapters
several xlr male- xlr female adapters
several 1/4"-1/8" adapters
couple of bnc adapters
bread ties (must have in any field kit)

What I normally do is second cam, seminars, and bands. What I would like to do, is more short film/opera style music vids. Shooting will be indoors and outdoors, and middle of nowhere on occasion. I'd also like to learn foley and adr techniques. Them foley people rock!
 
Equipment

Equipment

equipmentemporium.com deals with allot of student filmakers and low budget indies.

They have a whole lot of info on their website about sound.

Check them out.
 
Nice thread, again. The shoe mount is for the run-n-gun stuff, huh? I haven't
bought one yet. Just got my boompole and shotgun mic. Almost there with a
complete kit. Matt, check email, need to know how much I owe you so you
can get me some cables.
 
i have been looking on this thread for a while and i dont think that this has been answered.

what is a fairly cheap mic that can be used for indooors and outdoors.


thanks
 
It has been answered repeatedly throughout this forum - there isn't one. To do it right (sound, that is), you need a shotgun for outdoors and a hyper or cardioid for interiors.

And certainly, in the "fairly cheap" category, there is abosolutely nothing that would give you acceptable sound in both interiors and exteriors.

Phil
 
So, Let's Set Up Some ENG Parameters

So, Let's Set Up Some ENG Parameters

I've been lurking here for a while, as I'm a print journalist hired to start a broadcast operation. Electronic News Gathering seems to be used in a very vague sense, and often to refer to cheapness, but I'd like to suggest this isn't so, and come up with some parameters for ENG audio purchasing guidelines, tossing what I've learned from you guys back at you to see if I've really learned.

Mine is perhaps something of a unique situation in that money is less of an issue, as there is no absolute ceiling when it comes to cost, but that's tempered by the fact that the cheaper something is, the greater the justification I have in suggesting purchase sooner rather than later. But I think that this
situation is comparable to many others', if they actually care about their money: we want to spend something we can legitimately afford now, and are willing to spend somewhat more for something that'll last longer (in terms of both durability and quality). News operations are investing for the long-term as much as is reasonable.

To give an example, I've wanted to purchase a camera right out of the gate, but my boss was hesitant because he felt only $20,000+ cameras were sufficient, and that we were better off hiring cameramen with cameras until that price became realistic. I ultimately convinced him that the HVX200 is sufficient, and that's what we're going with.

It seems that a lot of you guys think the AT4073 is pretty much the HVX200 of shotgun mics. It's quite a lot better than those just a bit lower in price, and you'd have to spend quite a lot more, perhaps double, to get something recognizably better. At the same time, it's a good performer.

It seems the same could be said of Sennheiser's G2 wireless systems.

So, for the purposes of defining ENG: something that'll be used daily and in varied on-location situations, where durability is a concern. Variability of use is a concern, as any given story can include indoor and outdoor shots, interviews, and events. A sound operator in addition to the camera operator is a rare luxury that probably won't happen much, as is a boom
operator. In general, the equipment needs to be somewhat forgiving, as the situation dictates how things will be recorded much more than the producers and operators.

There is some assistance in the fact that a reporter will almost always be available in addition to the camera/sound operator to either wear a lavalier right where the sound is needed, or be holding onto a hand-held microphone. Also, hiding lavaliers and handhelds from the picture is unnecessary. Seated and walking interviews make lavaliers very valuable, perhaps necessary, and an on-camera shotgun is needed to gather responses and dialogue when the reporter is absent or a handheld won't suffice, but not from a distance of more than 6 feet, and usually 3.

With all of that layed out, I'm trying to apply the lessons learned from a mostly-filmmakers' forum to my intended practice.

SHOTGUN: AT4073A?
Seems to have a reputation for durability and great pick-up, as well as some forgiveness for not being aimed precisely at the source of sound, which could mean that capturing two people talking close together could go well. It's also got a reputation for not needing the greatest attention to sound controls. Its price point is good, especially if it really is a major improvement on those just $50-100 cheaper.

WIRELESS: Sennheiser G2 100 Series?
Has a great reputation for avoiding interference, a less-than-shocking price point, requires less attention and expertise, and is generally less buggy. The price point, though, is still significantly higher than some seemingly-acceptable equipment. Factoring in that it'd be used to operate two lavaliers quite often (meaning two receivers and two transmitters, correct), the expense is doubled.

LAVALIERS: No idea.
The "Top 5 Lavaliers" never materialized, and I've got really no idea. Would probably need to have them operate wirelessly. Size is less of an issue, as they don't need to be hidden, but something too large can be distracting. Would presumably be used for seated interviews, but probably also for interviews outdoors and in other semi-noisy areas (when possible).

HANDHELD: Little idea.
It'd seem that virtually any medium-range microphone would be fine, because it'll almost always be used in a pretty perfect position, and everyone here keeps reminding that location is far more important than quality of microphone. Durability is a sizeable concern, as is the ability to avoid handling noise.

With the 4073 and the G2, we'd seem to be off to a nice start of keeping the total cost relatively low, but factoring in the lavaliers and a second pair of receivers/transmitters, I'm concerned about the costs getting out of control.

I'd really love your advice on all of these, especially relating to your experiences with ENG situations, or those comparable to the ones I've detailed, and trying to keep some eye on costs.
 
Jimmyjohn,

The top five lavalieres is somewhat subjective, but here's what I have seen to be the general consensus in this group:

1. Sanken COS-11 (best sounding, reasonably small)
2. Countryman B6 (smallest lav ever seen, easily hidden in plain sight, sounds good to very good)
3. Countryman EMW (best sounding mic for the price, about half the price of 1 and 2)
4. DPA or MKE2 (I personally don't know much about these mics, I think it was Oleg that really liked the DPAs)
5. Tram (old workhorse, pretty much outclassed by all of the above now)

If you're talking sound reinforcement/theater, there is only one mic:
Countryman B3 - this mic seems to own this space.

On the handheld front, the general consensus is the Electro Voice 50B.

HTH,

Phil
 
the EV RE50 is "the" hand mic for interviews. It is internally shock/wind/pop protected and has 0 handling noise all for under $200.

The g2 systems come w/ terrible lavs. you can get new mics wired for g2 at trewaudio.com look at these (listed from low to high price) countryman emw, or b3, or b6, or the sanken cos11.

You can get these mics with power supplies so that they can be used wired or wireless which is nice when your wireless won't work in a hotel.
 
I'd also like to modify my above, to make sure that it's known that I'm asking for corrections on any/all of my assumptions about what kind of mics can/should be used for those kinds of situations. Also, are some more necessary than others?
Given the hand-held, is the shotgun really necessary? Given both, are lavaliers really necessary?
Should lavaliers be the primary consideration, and shotgun the second, or the reverse?
 
Always nice to see someone was using the "search" function and ressurecting an old thread. :)

There really is no 1 mic answer; every situation will call for a different approach/mic. Lavs tend to be pretty standard equipment and serve as backup for other approaches. A boom mic, in the hands of an experienced operator, will get you the best, most consistent sound in most situations.

If you want consistent good sound just be prepared for whatever might occur. Or as the BSA says, "Be prepared."

If it helps wrap your mind around the subject, ask yourself what one focal length should you bring to the shoot?

Cheers
 
Wabbit - Thanks, I'm trying my best to follow the manners of the forum. And thanks to all of you for the info you've provided.

I've gotten my boss to narrow down budget figures for me a bit, and it seems we're definitely trying to keep things under $2,000 for starters, and more likely under $1,500.

B&H offers a package that seems to be a pretty great deal:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/424666-REG/Sennheiser_Evolution_G2_100_Series.html

2 G2 receivers/transmitters, a plug-on, seemingly 2 ME2 lavs, the RE50, and a couple of additional accessories for $1,249.

The main question, then, is whether or not a shotgun, or some kind of camera-mounted microphone, will prove necessary, at least in the immediate term.

Because it would appear that under these rough budget numbers, can either get that bundle, or the ew100 kit alone (1 transmitter/receiver, 1 plug-on, 1 lav) and then buy a handheld and a shotgun.

Since that bundle only costs $1,249, for parts that in total probably cost around $1,500-$1,600, it's hard to pass up those savings, unless a shotgun is absolutely necessary.

And if I can't get the boss to green-light the 4073 in addition to this package, keeping in mind that a month or two down the line I might be able to get him to, is it worth investing in the Oktava as an alternative camera-mounted microphone?

Also, does that B&H bundle seem a good way to go?
 
that bundle seems like a decent deal, but remeber that you get 0 customer service when you buy from b and h. You should always strive to buy from a company who specializes in audio, even if they are slightly more expensive. It only takes one problem for you to wish you did, and wish with all of your heart...

Trewaudio.com is where I get all of my gear. You may be suprised to see what kind of price they will give.

The me2 lav that comes with that system are crummy... you need to replace it with countryman emw or b6 or sanken cos11 (wired for g2).

If you get a shotgun (or hyper) you will need a pole and shockmount and wind protection and possibly a mixer plus lots of good starquad cable. Budget a few thousand dollars for that. I would probably get the boom/mixer setup first if that was all I could afford (but it completely depends on the kind of work you do [you may want to add an EV RE50b $180 too]).

Oktava MK012 with hyper cardioid capsule $180 (sound-room.com) use the code "DV" for 5% off
K-Tek KSSM Shockmount with soft bands $120 (trewaudio.com)
Rycote Baby Ball Gag $140 (sound-room.com)
Rycote Furry Jammer $70 (sound-room.com)

and/or

AT4073a
K-Tek K-Zepp

and

Gitzo 12'5" carbon fiber pole (7560c?) $250 (just released a replacement for this pole at NAB, don't know the #)
Sound Devices Mixpre $665 (trewaudio.com) or SD302 if you can afford it
Petrol PSDMB-302 Mixer Bag $135 (trewaudio.com)
Sony 7506 headphones ($100)
GOOD Star Quad Cable $35-75 each (trewaudio.com)
 
Last edited:
Sane - Thanks.
So, the ME2 is really that bad? If it's unusable, it's not worth getting the various G2 packages available.

As far as a shotgun, almost definitely can't do a boom, as we'll probably never have enough personnel and/or set-up time, space, etc. to operate it. At least, I don't think so.

We're something of a run-and-gun news operation like all the others, but in our case it's a little bit less, since it's a news magazine, and we'll have somewhat more opportunity to mic people up for sit-down and walking interviews, hence the lavs coming into play.
 
Jimmyjohn,

The ME2/ME4 stock mic that comes with the G2's is pretty much unusable. This is the case with most of the stock mics that come with kits - including the Lectro stock mics. It is always a safe presumption that you need to budget to add a decent to good mic with any wireless kit - or if you can find it, just order the Tx and the Rx separately and then buy the mic. Usually you will save between $50 and $80 (pays for part of the new mic.)

Phil
 
phil's right. you can get by with the me2, but if you heard a b6 or a sanken a/b comparison you would get the better mic.

Don't let the stock mic scare you away. hell the stock lectro mics aren't that great
 
3 years later

3 years later

MattinSTL said:
Okay Jon, let's say you are my very best friend and I only want what's best for you. I do, in fact have a very good friend who (after seeing me get sudden out of town gigs... last minute flights and hotels) decided that HE wanted to do this stuff. It looked like something fun and rewarding and so he bought his first video camera. Unfortunately he wasn't in a position financially (or by his camera choice) to get serious about sound. For sake of this discussion let's pretend YOU are him... follow this list EXACTLY and when you run out of money put a bookmark on this post... pick it up again when you have more money... and buy these items in this order 'cause I'm listing them in order of most important to least important for an average sampling of shots that you'll have:

Sony 7506 headphones: $99 anywhere
Gitzo 7680c boom pole: $219 adorama
50' Canare StarQuad XLR: $47 filmtools
OR OPTION (2) x 25' XLR: $70 total and can plug together for 50' or use seperately for 2 mics later. (cheapy cables suck, don't do it)...
Click to expand...

i just noticed that it has been 3 yurrs since the original post of the mattinstl sound kit, does it stand pretty much unchanged, i know things don't change as rapidly as with video cameras right now but it has been a little while.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top