Panasonic Rebate support - 16gb to sub for 8gb

[hotchkiss]

huh?

huh?

Sure it's about fairness.

Much of what is provided here and elsewhere that help drive early HVX200 sales were earlier purchasers who paid full price and then troubleshot the cam and reported here and elsewhere.

The rebate commenced about four months after the HVX200 starting shipping in quantity.

I never understood why companies reward new purchasers with incentives, but ignore long standing customers completely.

It has everything to do with fairness.

And obviously, early adopters are ignored.

It's a fact of life; but it isn't fair. It's business.

David with all due respect, this is disturbing logic. You choose to purchase the camera when you did, for the price you did, knowing what the camera did and did not include. You were an early adopter in the technology realm. A strategy that comes with it's risks and rewards in this digital age. Of which of these things is Panasonic responsible for ? On which count did they sell any consumers short, mislead them, sell a faulty product etc?

It has nothing to do with fairness, but rather the choices you and others made regarding you purchase timing of the HVX. Purchasing your HVX200 a few months or even a year before others, does not qualify you as a "longstanding customer". Is a longstanding customer somebody who bought it the first month of it's release, the second month, or the third month?- on a product that is a year old ?

From this thread I've learned the following: 1) Panasonic is not nice for implementing a rebate program that gives away a $1300.00 product because it didn't make this all inclusive to anyone who bought this camera. 2) Panasonic should now give away a 16GB card because it is closer to the original MSRP of the 8 GB card that is included in the rebate- or they are not nice. 3) That a bizarre victimhood and entitlement dynamic is at work here, mirroring the dynamic in society at large.

WIth this thinking, when Panasoinic introduces the HVX's successor I'm going to be first in line to demand that Panasonic compensate me for the features and improvements that were not included in the current model. I will also ask to be refunded any price differential if the price of the new model is lower than what I paid. If by chance any improvements are made in the current models production life, I will be sure to raise a stink at the un-fairness of Panasonic improving it's product in mid-cycle .

 

[hotchkiss]

Sony announces a P2 camera !

Sony announces a P2 camera !

Im looking forward to other companies providing P2 solutions. I will spend my money there BEFORE I spend it at Panny- aint America great -

Congrats to those getting free 16gb cards!

When Sony introduces a camera with Panasonics patented P2 technology, go ahead and jump on it...

 

[Barry_Green]

If by chance any improvements are made in the current models production life, I will be sure to raise a stink at the un-fairness of Panasonic improving it's product in mid-cycle .

Fantastic post, you've identified this infuriating "victimhood" mentality perfectly. Thanks to all those who have whined, now nobody anywhere gets a free P2 card as part of a rebate program.

 

[taormina]

The phrase "complain if you hung him with a new rope" comes to mind.

 

[David Saraceno]

It has nothing to do with fairness, but rather the choices you and others made regarding you purchase timing of the HVX. Purchasing your HVX200 a few months or even a year before others, does not qualify you as a "longstanding customer". Is a longstanding customer somebody who bought it the first month of it's release, the second month, or the third month?- on a product that is a year old ?

I appreciate your comments. However, this is an issue of fairness. Why do so many companys spend so much time creating incentives for new users rather than reward existing ones?

You are correct in that I knew what I was doing.

However, that doesn't blunt my criticism of Panasonic's surprisingly early rebate program.

I'm not arguing about Panasonic's business decision. It's the company's call. But it doesn't make program and its timing any less fair.

 

[hotchkiss]

I appreciate your comments. However, this is an issue of fairness. Why do so many companys spend so much time creating incentives for new users rather than reward existing ones?

You are correct in that I knew what I was doing.

However, that doesn't blunt my criticism of Panasonic's surprisingly early rebate program.

I'm not arguing about Panasonic's business decision. It's the company's call. But it doesn't make program and its timing any less fair.

Perhaps the word "unfortunate" would be a more accurate term than "unfair" to describe your concerns. The latter implies some kind of injustice, which is an irrelevant term or impllication in this discussion. It is "unfortunate" that the timing of your purchase excluded you and others from rebate elligibility, but it is in no way unjust. To make that implication is misleading and a gross misconstrual.

Companies institute sales incentives whenever they need to or see fit. Not as you or anyone else would have them do. There's nothing unfair about that. Unfortunate for you, certainly, but Panasonic owes you nor anyone else an explanation or apology. In fact Panasonic was quite generous to backtime rebate ellibility to the degree they did. Panasonic was/is very generous to offer a rebate of this magnitude- period.

"Why do so many companys spend so much time creating incentives for new users rather than reward existing ones?"

You answered your own question. They are looking for new users, existing ones have already purchased the product. This isn't Costco, a country club, REI or some other membership based organization that obligates itself to member services.

The benefits of having a camera as capable as the HVX, at it's price point is a substantial benefit in and of itself. No?

 

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

I appreciate your comments. However, this is an issue of fairness. Why do so many companys spend so much time creating incentives for new users rather than reward existing ones?

You are correct in that I knew what I was doing.

However, that doesn't blunt my criticism of Panasonic's surprisingly early rebate program.

I'm not arguing about Panasonic's business decision. It's the company's call. But it doesn't make program and its timing any less fair.

I think the incentive they provide is creating and releasing a new, great camera.

 

[pkendall]

As has been explained many times before, Panasonic US has to buy the cameras from Panasonic (Matsushi*a) Japan. The rebate program provides a "value add" that can only be delivered directly by Panasonic US to the end-user customer. By doing that, Panasonic US makes a big dent in the grey market product brought into the US. Lowering the wholesale price of the product would not have the same effect, as most likely the price would be lowered worldwide, continuing to create a grey market for cameras sold elsewhere, in different economies, where local market forces require and/or permit different pricing structures......

in one ear and out the other when i have to shell out thousands upon thousands of junior bacon cheesburgers.. I don't care about they're side, i only care about my side and my wallet.. I'm a filmmaker... not a suit... yes, i think it's great that every now and then Panasonic has this get a free $1000 deal.. I appreciate Jan's participation in this forum, I've meet her. She's a very nice and smart lady...

So you fancy yourself as the Panasonic pricing expert? If you don't like the price then it's simple, buy another camera....

I love this camera and NO i will not switch to Sony or JVC until they come out with a camera with a servo zoom, shoots slowmo and a good codec like DVCPROHD, it's insulting for people to say that.. it's like what smokers said about the waiters and waitress when they were banning smoking in bars, why don't they just not work there.. go somewhere else... haha

Fantastic post, you've identified this infuriating "victimhood" mentality perfectly. Thanks to all those who have whined, now nobody anywhere gets a free P2 card as part of a rebate program.

Barry, Nobody's playing the victim here.. at least not me.. it's a great product.. I'll still buy the 16 or 32 gig cards, I'm excited for it.. i'm just not happy about with the thought that panasonic is being dishonest here with these cards.... playing games... (i'm already playing the industry game) I just want cheaper cards.. I'll still spend the same amount of money, i'd want 4 of these instead of just 2 in my bag.. if these cards really did cost a grand, they wouldn't be handing them out like business cards at a celebrity golf outting... if i really wanted to whine, i'll would cry about not getting your book for free..

best,
Patrick Kendall

 

[tonyfarley]

I have a great camera and I am awaiting my great 8gig P2 card that, it seems, may turn into a 16 gig card! Awesome!

My experience with the folks at the rebate center was nothing but positive. I signed up online, faxed my forms and receipt in, called the place to make sure it was all there and proper, and they called me back to tell me everything was in order.

Sorry to hear that things did not go so smooth for everyone, but usually folks only hear and discuss the negative and this seems to be the case in this thread.

I'm really itching to get that card though. I bought a 4 gig, but I really have to limit my shooting and edit the card during the day (which is really cool!!! I come home with only good shots!). Luckily, I only shoot for about 5 min worth of good video.

Tony

 

[Xrayspecs]

...Thanks to all those who have whined, now nobody anywhere gets a free P2 card as part of a rebate program.

Did I miss something? Or is this comment intended to be ironic and not literal?

 

[hotchkiss]

I love this camera and NO i will not switch to Sony or JVC until they come out with a camera with a servo zoom, shoots slowmo and a good codec like DVCPROHD, it's insulting for people to say that.. it's like what smokers said about the waiters and waitress when they were banning smoking in bars, why don't they just not work there.. go somewhere else... haha

Hardly insulting, buy another camera if you don't like Panasonics prices. The equivalency made between the Panasonics pricing structure and smoking bans is silly. Are you going to complain if said Sony or JVC camera is not priced at where you think it should be? There's a reason current Sony and JVC HDV cameras are priced like they are compared to the HVX- HDV . Oh wait, the others don't have good codecs, servos or good slo mo....

Barry, Nobody's playing the victim here.. at least not me.. it's a great product.. I'll still buy the 16 or 32 gig cards, I'm excited for it.. i'm just not happy about with the thought that panasonic is being dishonest here with these cards.... playing games... (i'm already playing the industry game) I just want cheaper cards.. I'll still spend the same amount of money, i'd want 4 of these instead of just 2 in my bag.. if these cards really did cost a grand, they wouldn't be handing them out like business cards at a celebrity golf outting... if i really wanted to whine, i'll would cry about not getting your book for free..

best,
Patrick Kendall[/QUOTE]

Panasonic dishonest ?... You do fancy yourself as a pricing expert afterall, which is ironic given that you appear to have little or no undestanding of business basics such as R&D costs, ROI, profit margins, product development cycles and the like. What they sell them for and what they cost are two different things. If you're not playing the victim, then the issue is that your world view on these issues suffers from ignorance or a tremendous sense of entitlement- or possibly both.

I have no idea if you plan on making money with your films. Let's suppose you do. How are you going to price your distribution deal ? By letting the purchaser tell you what the film should be priced at- irreregardless of any other considerations? Do your costs matter? Do you need to pay bills? Do you hope to make more films? Is your goal just to break even, or is it to get ahead and create other options for yourself creatively and personally? DO you need to buy/rent other equipment? Do you even keep track of your expenses? Do you even need to, or is somebody supporting you?

So, what say ye to these questions?

 

[Barry_Green]

Did I miss something? Or is this comment intended to be ironic and not literal?

It's meant to mean that what started as a great promotion, and even grew to include other territories, is now canceled. Instead of the program growing and getting larger, they pulled the plug on March 31st.

What could have been the single greatest enticement to introduce the P2 experience to the widest number of users instead got discontinued.

And pkendall, I wasn't in any way singling you out. Since day one of this promotion being announced there has been a chorus of whining and complaining by those who didn't make the cutoff date. And yes, they do act with a "victimhood" mentality, or at least an "entitlement" mentality that is absolutely counterproductive. It may be just me, but I think the bleating and (yes) whining that accompanied this promotion have marked a low point in DVXUser posting history, and I think the hand that was feeding out the free cards has now been bitten so many times that they just said "fine, forget it, nobody gets free cards anymore." So we all lose.

 

[David Saraceno]

Barry, I see a difference between a company's treatment of existing users, and the effort to gather new ones.

I for one am not whining or feel I am "entitled" to anything.

However, those feelings are different that what I consider to be a basic unfairness in this incentive plan.

Everything Panasonic does isn't correct.

And every criticism of Panasonic isn't alway "whining" or "complaining."

 

[Barry_Green]

Did anyone say that "every criticism" is whining? I'm talking specifically and only about the whining, and yes there's been classic whining going on about this.

Clearly there's been mistakes made in this rebate program, and obviously if it had been handled perfectly there never would have been a shortage and people would have gotten their cards and books and such rapidly. Nobody's arguing or excusing that.

I'm only talking about the whining.

Look, every manufacturer charges their early adopters more. Get over it. When Seagate drops their prices on their hard disks (which happens roughly every month) are the early adopters entitled to get the price break too? Of course not.

When GM or Ford or any other auto manufacturer offers "employee pricing" does that mean that every customer who bought before that offer can storm the dealership and demand their price be dropped to "employee pricing"? Of course not.

Or, let's go with an absolutely direct parallel: when an auto manufacturer announces a new "cash back" incentive, does every existing customer go storming back to the dealer to demand "their" check too?

Sorry, it's preposterous.

I mean, let's all do each other a favor and LOOK AT THE THREAD TITLE. Panasonic is now apparently offering to give out free 16GB cards instead of the promised/agreed upon free 8GB cards. And what do they get?

MORE WHINING.

And the promotion is now dead. Hope everyone's happy. With reactions like this, it seems like people will only be happy if there's never another price drop again.

It's ludicrous.

 

[David Saraceno]

Look, every manufacturer charges their early adopters more. Get over it.

I'm not "under" it.

I just don't think it's a good business practice, nor do I, and a whole bunch of respected users here and elsewhere, view the "timing" of the promotion as fair.

I'm just expressing my opinion, as you are.

And do you realistically believe that the concerns stated here and elsewhere are the reason for the termination of the promotion?

Panasonic, like every other company you stated, is interested in driving sales.

If the company thought giving away a pony would encourage the bottom line, we all would be buying hay.

 

[Barry_Green]

I'm not specifying "you" when I say "get over it", sorry if that came across as sounding personal, it was meant in the global/plural sense of "you" -- basically, it's in reference to all those who'd rather carry around baggage on their backs and complain about it, rather than just accepting that reality is what it is, and move on.

And sorry, there's nothing at all "unfair" about someone starting a new sales promotion. It happens in every industry, every day of the week, every month and every year. It is the way of things, it is the way things will always be. Early adopters will always pay more, and work harder, and learn why the "bleeding edge" is called the bleeding edge. Complaining about it is just wasted energy, bringing unnecessary negativity into one's own life and the lives of those within earshot.

What I can't get past is this concept of it not being "fair". So let me put it directly: is it "fair" that Apple bought Shake and now makes it available to new customers for $500, when older customers paid as much as $5,000 for it? Is that "fair"? Should the older customers go demanding $4500 refunds from Apple? Where does it end?

It ends when we customers take responsibility for our own actions, recognize that we entered into transactions based on the current day's offering, and we move forward from there. Bleating and complaining about how someone else's offer "isn't fair" doesn't accomplish anything useful, and only serves to drag themselves (and the others within earshot) down. So why continue to do it?

nd do you realistically believe that the concerns stated here and elsewhere are the reason for the termination of the promotion?

I realistically believe that the amount of hassle and complaints that this promotion have made the Panasonic people deal with (both deserved and undeserved), have probably been enough for them to say "screw this, cancel it." There are probably other contributing factors too, but I don't for a minute doubt that the impact of this much complaining and ill will has had a very large influence on their decision to terminate this program.

 

[David Saraceno]

What about my pony comment?



Unlike automobiles, hard drives, and the other items you mentioned, HVX200 users are an insular group.

If we can influence customer promotions negatively, perhaps we almost influence it positively by conscientious criticism.

 

[Barry_Green]

I had a pony when I was about 8 or so. Nasty little beast, did his best to knock me off by riding under low tree branches. A pony would not be a sales incentive.

 

[ozduc]

I'm not "under" it.

I just don't think it's a good business practice, nor do I, and a whole bunch of respected users here and elsewhere, view the "timing" of the promotion as fair.

For someone that doesn't "need to get over it" you sure spend a lot of time and energy complaining about it, oh sorry, expressing your opinion.
The fact is all businesses have the right to re-structure their pricing without any obligation to existing customers or early adapters to their products. Call it unfair or whatever you want, it is a fact of living in a capitalist society. If you dont like it maybe you should try living somewhere like North Korea or Cuba. Fixed pricing for the masses!
Did you ever stop to think that by having this rebate and introducing a lot of new customers to the P2 world, that this will in turn and probably has been partly responsible for driving DOWN the pricing of P2 cards?
BTW when you release your next blockbuster movie on DVD at $24.95, only to have that price drop to $9.95 six months later, to try and boost sales, I will make sure I get in touch with you so I can get my $15 rebate, being that I was an early buyer!:dankk2:

 

[S A Studios]

I would just and say "for the record". I love Panasonic, always have and this glitch does not change that.

I only say if, you offer incentives, please follow throw. I have bought may cameras, at good times and not so good times. But part of my decision to buy is based on incentives. Is there a better way to manage these programs???

Someone suggested putting the extras in the box, limit the number available? I'm all for that.