Record uncompressed 14-bit (4:4:4) on your HVX200

Hello everyone!

Thanks for your patience, we are updating the pictures taken at the show in between moving crates and catching flights.

We've added some more pictures and information available by clicking on the "updates from show floor" banner on our front page:
http://www.reel-stream.com

Our target price range for Hydra is $3500-$4500, and no, it is not necessarily at the top of this range. Our goal has always been to make uncompressed acquisition as affordable as possible, this is just a rough range for now. Once we get closer to beta we'll have more accurate figures. As with Andromeda, the idea is that a single price includes the entire bundle: hardware, software, installation and return shipping within continental U.S.

I would like to thank all the great people who stopped by the booth and kept us very busy, I also finally got to put some faces together with forum names.

More info will be posted tonight, but please do post any questions you have and I will get to them asap.

Cheers,
Juan@reel-stream.com
 
Juan, for those of us who didn't make it to NAB, we love you too!

Continuing the discussion about audio though, if it didn't make it into sculptor 2, I could see a third party program coming out for a hydra workflow, export online footage in to a standalone app that accepts MXF files, and outputs an interleaved stream in whatever format you want.

Of course I'd hate to pay extra for that, but I just want to see it there.

I just some Juan comes up with an easier way to sync sound than via the NLE.

Cause, think about it, most film workflows DON'T need to worry about sync unless the process the footage themselves. Whens sent in for telecine with their audio, the lab that scans takes care of it, all outside of an NLE.

If hydra keeps it real with the film workflow, it shouldn't be an EXTRA step than even film for sync sound.

That said, Juan you're a god! Right next to my statue of Vishnu with the DVX100 in 4 of the arms.
 
I have been out of the HVX loop for a while now. But I just heard of Hydra and was lead to this thread from Reelstream’s site. I read the thread till page 8 and quit. Too long. But for what I gathered the Reelstream mod will cost the same amount of a HDV camera or used HVX and won’t record sync audio.
The promise of 2k uncompressed is sure nice and what attracted me to Hydra. But having used a HVX and being disappointed with the mediocre resolution (sharpness or however you want to call it), I wonder how is it possible to pull real 2K from those CCds? It’s said that the HVX CCDs resolution is only like 530k pixels. If the pixel shifting doesn’t work well not even for 720p (the HD100 is 720p too and is clearly sharper than the HVX) how is it going to work for 2k? Also, I’m sure the HVX lens is not up to 2k resolution. So unless Hydra is magic, how is it going to do the trick?
Although I’m always blown away with the colors, skin tones and overall feel of the HVX images, it looks really soft. Now resolution is not everything I know that and I’m not in no way saying the HVX is a bad camera. It has a LOT going for it, like what I already said, plus the variable frame rates. But since we are talking about increasing the resolution to 2k, I think resolution is what matters most for this conversation and that’s the weakest point of the HVX. All the other affordable 1/3” HD cameras out there seem to be sharper. So how is Hydra doing it?
 
Hello,

There are indeed a lot of myths regarding pixel shift. Most people seem to put it on par with uprezzing, when in reality it works very much like single sensor color bayer pattern cameras work. As always, each approach has its own advantages and disadvantages, but the basic tradeoff between a bayer single sensor approach and a pixel-shift 3-sensor approach given the same sensor size and technology, is that a bayer sensor will have more color content while the pixel shift approach yields more dynamic range and possibly sensitivity and noise characteristics.

Regarding audio, the latest specs for Hydra include 4-channels of uncompressed 16-bit 48kHz audio over the gigabit ethernet link:
http://www.reel-stream.com/headline.php?id=112

Cheers,
Juan
 
Craig Ryan said:
Mediacre, I think you should check out Barry Green's recent test comparison between the HD100 and the HVX. it really sheds alot of light on the myths of the HVX being a lower resolution HD camera. In reality when looking at the comparisons, it appears not the case at all.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=50288
Click to expand...

Isn't this link to the 1st camera shootout? I remember that.
But Adam Wilt tested the cameras for DV.com after that and the HVX showed to be softer than the HD100. Can't get any better than Adam Wilt’s opinion. Besides that, I have rented and used both cameras and the HVX is indeed softer than the HD100. That wasn’t anybody telling me but my hands on experience. The HD100 is also technically sharper because it has native 1280x720 CCDs where the HVX does not. The HVX is better in many other ways but sharpness is not one of them.
But I don't want to turn this into a HVX vs HD100 thing. I'm interested to know how is Hydra doing it. It seems to me it would have to be magic to really pull real 2k out of the HVX (or HD100 or any other camera without a 2K CCD).
 
pertierr said:
Hello,

There are indeed a lot of myths regarding pixel shift. Most people seem to put it on par with uprezzing, when in reality it works very much like single sensor color bayer pattern cameras work. As always, each approach has its own advantages and disadvantages, but the basic tradeoff between a bayer single sensor approach and a pixel-shift 3-sensor approach given the same sensor size and technology, is that a bayer sensor will have more color content while the pixel shift approach yields more dynamic range and possibly sensitivity and noise characteristics.

Regarding audio, the latest specs for Hydra include 4-channels of uncompressed 16-bit 48kHz audio over the gigabit ethernet link:
http://www.reel-stream.com/headline.php?id=112

Cheers,
Juan
Click to expand...

Good news about the sound.

About pixel shift, color is one thing. You can filter it and you see the color on the screen, but how do you fabricate resolution?
 
Hello,

We don't fabricate anything, we just use what is already there. Panasonic posted a graphic explanation a while back ago about how pixel shift works, but there seems to be a tendency to focus in on the individual CCD resolution. The most straightforward example I can think of, is if I took some car and put 2 more engines in it, most people wouldn't say it still had the power of a single engine. However, there is such fixation on resolution numbers that all it takes is listing a frame-size for a single CCD and that is all that gets noticed.

Think of it this way, if you take a 1920x1080 single sensor bayer camera like the SI-1920, and you count the number of red pixels on the chip you will get a 960x540 array.

What pixel shift does is use a similar approach but breaking up red, green and blue content into individual sensors with smaller pixel counts than if you had a single sensor of the same size. As I mentioned before, one side effect is that because you have the pixels spread over 3 sensors instead of one, each pixel element has a greater surface area which yields greater dynamic range among other characteristics.

There are also other differences...for example, DVCPROHD doesn't encode the frame data using the full HD frame sizes of 1920x1080 or 1280x720, but rather encodes less pixels, if I remember correctly they are 960x720 and 1280x1080.

Yet another difference is that the HVX(and DVX) cuts off sections of the CCD which we are capturing. Once again, CCD sensors commonly have significantly more pixels than the final image to be created, and even if the imager block is capable of 2k, it really doesn't mean much if the DVCPROHD or miniDV formats on the camera cannot encode 2k, so it gets thrown away.

Hope this helps!
Juan
 
Maybe I'm late to the game but fellas! AUDIO WILL BE RECORDED IN HYDRA!!!!

It will come off the cam XLR or onboard mic! It's all on the reel-stream website.

I am so excited there are no words. JUAN YOU ARE AMAZING!!!

No question over here I'm ditching all thoughts of SI-2k for myself for the future! VIVA LA HYDRA!
 
Mediacre said:
... but how do you fabricate resolution?
Click to expand...

have you seen any "Andromeda" footage?

Personally, you can have all the academic debates you want. It wont mean squat until we see footage from a Hydra unit. Why go on and on about it until the footage is released?

After seeing what was done by Reel Stream to the DVX, I am DYING to see Hydra footage.

As has been said already, the proof will be in the pudding.
If the footage delivers what it claims, I for one WILL be in the market for Hydra, it would make my HVX a little more resistant to becoming obsolete as newer cams hit the market. Plus with the added support for captured audio... well .. w0w.

Id love to see a Hydra in the hands of a talented DP :thumbsup:- looking forward to any and all updates Juan.
 
Any mention anywhere about projected video and still releases from the Reel-Stream team? Thought NAB. =(
 
Let's hope it's not 6+ months from release. It took so long for the Andromeda to get out that I moved onto the HVX instead of modifying my DVX. I know there are significant differences but the balance tipped it to the HVX for me.

The camera world is changing fast - really fast. When something is available to actually posses is so important - whether it be the Hydra, the Red, or whatever.

I believe comparisons should be made between things you can get your hands on - not just potentials and specs.

I know this is obvious but I often think it gets lost in all the excitement.

Pete
 
Look1st, you can "not" talk about it all you want.

I personally find it fun and interesting to speculate on what, for me and many others, will be the most economical and value oriented path for upgrading to DCI spec without trading in cams.

We've seen andro, it came in better than their claims. Why should we be skeptical about Hydra?

Especially since Juan is tapped into his customers. What we say, and want influences the product.

I personally can't wait to get a 300 foot ethernet cable, grab a merlin, my modded HVX, and start recording onto a buspowered LACIE little big disk, off my MBP with preview and LUT, end the scene, press stop, and look at that beautiful pristine 2k 14-bit footage, and drool.

I swear to god, that would be better than morphine straight to the dome.
 
I suspect we are looking at September for a full non-beta release. If it comes in at $3500.... wow... 2K 4:4:4 for $7500



ash =o)
 
Yeah, I kinda thought about that after a while. That's a pretty stable price point for the trade-offs of other systems that are just 3k more or so.

I'm all on board for 3500-3700. And now with Audio being acquired as well, definitely something unexpected.

I'd just love to see some stills already.
 
arrestthisman said:
Look1st, you can "not" talk about it all you want.

I personally find it fun and interesting to speculate on what, for me and many others, will be the most economical and value oriented path for upgrading to DCI spec without trading in cams.

We've seen andro, it came in better than their claims. Why should we be skeptical about Hydra?

Especially since Juan is tapped into his customers. What we say, and want influences the product.
Click to expand...

ummmmmmmm
have you not noticed my support and anticipation of the Hydra. Dude maybe you need to slow down and re-read my post. It wasnt directed at you or to you. oh wait, now that you found out audio is supported you want to carry on about something else?
Like a i said, calm down a bit and make sure you fully understand what someone is saying before you call them out.

and p.s.- unless youve bought something from reel stream, you are a POTENTIAL customer.

I am STILL looking forward to Hydra and will buy it if it delivers as promised...-are you?
 
So does the Hydra mod permanently affect the rest of the camera...i.e. are it's normal functions and modes still available?
 
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