Another "which camera should I buy"

Canon doesn't make decks. Their only 'decks' are the HV10 and HV20. Even then, transferring using the camera is not big of a deal. Just rewind once and transfer everything in one go. We have been doing that with my college DVXs for years since the deck's firewire port stop working (Panasonic told us that the deck has been discontinued and they can't fix it) and it's not an issue.

As much as I love the DVX (I have shot everything from events, corporates, music videos, shorts, to feature length with it) and I still can get amazing images from it, the A1 can do everything the DVX can and more with just a minor price difference.

In fact, the A1 is what I would call the 'true' successor to the DVX throne. It is affordable and a similiar form factor as the DVX. I predict it fast becoming the champion of indies like the DVX. The HVX, while an amazing piece of technology has alienated a lot of indie filmmakers because of the high costs.

Despite HD not being very common now, it is good to have a camera that is at least HD ready.
 
Vincent Wong Yoon Wei said:
the A1 can do everything the DVX can and more with just a minor price difference.
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Really? I've tried my friend's A1 and it could not focus and zoom at the same time.But I could only do that with a DVX.
 
cecil995 said:
Does the A1 shoot true 24p?
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You edit 24F in true 24P. The chips themselves are interlaced, and Canon uses a method they have referred to as 24F to extract 24 progressive frames using pixel shift, but this is NOT the same frame mode they employed with the XL1. Upon capture to Final Cut Pro, it is 24 discrete frames - from 24 discrete moments per second in time. So to answer, the end result is true 24P, how they get there, is more complicated than most are willing to take a close look at, and sometimes therefore pronouncing that it ain't 24P. This is not true, even to film out houses, as they will transfer Canon's 24F material to film, but will NOT transfer Sony's CF24. That should be enough to put the question to rest. Granted had the chips been progressive, the camera would keep the maximum available resolution, even with the slight loss of resolution in 24F mode it still leaves the camera, at a resolution higher than anything else in it's class.
 
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DavidChia said:
Really? I've tried my friend's A1 and it could not focus and zoom at the same time.But I could only do that with a DVX.
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If you want to get really anal about it, yes, the A1 could not zoom and focus at the same time.

But let's look at the bigger picture, extensive image customization, progressive, 20x zoom, records HD to cheap DV tape, etc, etc...it is the DVX and more.
 
Look at it this way. If you could mod your DVX to shoot HD for $480, wouldn't you jump on it? I know I would, and that is the price distance between a new DVX-100 and a new XH-A1. Not that the DVX is a slouch in what it does, it certainly is not, I'm just saying if he goes that route, there are many used DVX's, with low head hours, to be had, and will make up for what I see as a current overpricing of a new DVX.
 
Duct Tape Films said:
Look at it this way. If you could mod your DVX to shoot HD for $480, wouldn't you jump on it? I know I would, and that is the price distance between a new DVX-100 and a new XH-A1. Not that the DVX is a slouch in what it does, it certainly is not, I'm just saying if he goes that route, there are many used DVX's, with low head hours, to be had, and will make up for what I see as a current overpricing of a new DVX.
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I agree, with Duct Tape Films. If you want a DVX, go used, they are just not worth it buying new these day. The DVX will still be usable for a few more years and it's a simple enough camera to get started on.
 
I think some of the used DVX prices were to high. New ones were $2800 after the rebate and people asking the same or just a little less for a used! I would go with the new. But that is all old news now that the rebate is over. B&H has the DVX100 in stock for $3,399. The Canon XH-A1 in stock after the rebate is $3249.

You would have to go with the Canon unless your MTV and not worried about the money. Come on Panasonic,,,
 
Zim said:
I think some of the used DVX prices were to high. New ones were $2800 after the rebate and people asking the same or just a little less for a used! I would go with the new. But that is all old news now that the rebate is over. B&H has the DVX100 in stock for $3,399. The Canon XH-A1 in stock after the rebate is $3249.

You would have to go with the Canon unless your MTV and not worried about the money. Come on Panasonic,,,
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Exactly. I like Panasonic's products better, but the XH-A1 suits my needs better right now, and I imagine many are in the same boat as well, especially documentary (or other types of long form shooting style) filmmakers. I didn't know the DVX rebate had expired. If that's the case, a new one is completely a non-starter to me. Pay more money to specifically NOT have HD? :huh:


Also, about the zoom/focus at the same time issue. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I never zoom in the middle of a shot. I just don't. I know it's in style to do so, ahem, Twenty-freaking-four I'm looking you're general direction (and you keep looking at me closer, and closer, and wider, and closer again, cut it out man and hold the freaking shot will ya?), but I only zoom while reframing. So, personally, it's not something I miss with the A1. I'm sure there are others who consider the snap zoom part of their style, if you like that, well God bless ya, then certainly perhaps the A1 is not for you. However, if your style is more like mine, and zooming mid shot is not your bag either, the lack of full manual capability remains a non-issue on the A1.
 
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Vincent Wong Yoon Wei said:
If you want to get really anal about it, yes, the A1 could not zoom and focus at the same time.

But let's look at the bigger picture, extensive image customization, progressive, 20x zoom, records HD to cheap DV tape, etc, etc...it is the DVX and more.
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I'm not being anal, just that seeing claims of incorrect facts really should be pointed out.

both camera are great. But when you say that one does everthing that the other is and better. You got to read more and back your facts ....

If you would say that the A1 in your opion is a better camera then the dvx.Well , that is o.k, because it is your opion.But to say that A1 is everything that the dvx is and better, then you are wrong in claimimg that.claims like yours are very misleading.
 
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Saying that it's "everything the DVX is" is just wrong. Saying "it does everything I need, so in my case it's even better than a DVX" is fine, but to say that it does everything a DVX does is just plain factually incorrect. Someone else made that claim a few weeks ago and I tried to list a whole bunch of features that the DVX has that the XHA1 doesn't, so people could look through that list and see if there's anything they can't live without.
 
Barry_Green said:
No, it isn't. It may be everything you need, but it isn't everything the DVX is. DVX includes manual zoom, cinegamma, is at least a stop faster, has precise repeatable focus, better audio, individually controllable audio channels for line/mic and phantom power and routing one mic to both channels, two levels of zebras, zebras and peaking at the same time, etc. The XHA1 has many things to it that the DVX doesn't as well. They're not the same, and the XHA1 does many things the DVX doesn't (including high def!) But to say that it's "everything the DVX is" is just not true. Might be everything you needed from a DVX, but that won't apply to everyone.

As compared to the DVX, I'd say the XHA1 takes six steps forward and two steps back. But with the aggressive pricing, it's the better buy for most circumstances; a prospective owner would have to look at the list of things the DVX does that the XHA1 doesn't and determine if those were dealbreakers. If they can live without those features, get the XHA1 by all means. If the user can't live without those features, the XHA1 is not the better camera for them.
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I think Barry was refering to this above.

Which i very much agree.What is good for you might not be good for me.
 
This is getting to the point of semantics but I know better than to argue with Barry :) .

Therefore I will admit that I was wrong in making such a sensitive and inconsiderate remark.

The camera at the end of the day is just a tool. Buy what works for you, features, functions, price, etc, etc...
 
DavidChia said:
I think Barry was refering to this above.

Which i very much agree.What is good for you might not be good for me.
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That quote is so dead on. Exactly what I feel about the DVX and A1 in direct comparison. Nail, meet head. They are not the same, they have similarities, under most circumstances, prices being equal, the A1 probably edges out the DVX for many people, which is why I think the best recommendation for the original poster, if the DVX's feature set has things you certainly cannot live without, and don't really care about HD right now, getting a used DVX with low head hours. It is the cheapest way in, yet still is by no means, cheaping out. If not, and HD is your priority, and you're willing to pony up the extra cash, the A1 is the way to go. There is no uber answer here - only the answer that will suit the needs of the original poster the best.
 
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Exactly -- what suits some, will not suit others. But unless the price is adjusted significantly, the A1 makes a compelling case for itself in contrast to the DVX as of right now. Just be aware of what it does and doesn't do, and match your needs to the appropriate feature set.

DavidChia, thanks for digging that up, that's exactly what I was referring to. Doesn't make the DVX "better" for everyone, but it does list the things that you won't be getting from an A1, so a properly-informed buyer is better prepared to make the right choice for them.
 
Great posts guys. Do you believe in fate? I was driving to work today and happened to glance at the license plate on the car in front of me and the last 4 letters and numbers were XHA1! I'm currently leaning towards the Canon as it does offer HDV and after watching "28 Days Later" I was blown away and that was on a Canon. An SD Canon if I'm not mistaken. The one financial advantage I can see for an HVX is that I could rent it out and recoup some of my investment, but I think the Canon is a good middle ground. I can learn the craft and then in 2 or 3 years time I can go for the HVX. In reality the HVX is probably the better camera but the only way to shoot HD is the expensive P2 cards or a Firestore which adds thousands to an already expensive (for me) piece of equipment. Even though the HVX is now $4,200 on Amazon, it will still require thousands more to fully take advantage of it. So I'm looking at:

Canon XHA1-$3,500
Apple PC-$1,500
Final Cut Pro-$1,000
Basic Lighting/Mic and boom-$1,500 (can anyone recommend a decent starter kit?)
Total to start-$7,500
Talent-priceless (LOL sorry couldn't resist :) )

Sound about right?

Mark
 
I'd up that lighting and sound number to closer to 2000 for a very basic kit. And add a tripod, case, uv filter, and a few hundred dollars worth of extras.

The A1 sounds like a good choice for you though - the HVX definitely has lots of extra expenses required to shoot HD. Tape is much cheaper and has doesnt require the workflow rethinking of p2. P2 works for me though and I'll be doing anything and everything to never use a tape again :) My only HDV warning though is that it takes some serious horsepower to edit it.

The license plate thing is creepy, maybe my wife will see a plate that says sd-302 and buy me one....
 
ummm i don't know what kind of mac your gonna get for 1500.......but with hdv you need ram and storage storage storage! I would suggest getting at least 500 gigs of hard drive to work with.
 
If you need 500 gigs of storage for the HDV, what are you looking at for the HVX? I figure storage equals out... And from what I always could tell, and XHA1 was just a weird camera. HDV is NOT HD. It's compressed. And since it's not the G1, there's no way to get the HD out, it's trapped into a Mini DV which cannot hold HD, right?

And sure P2 cards and Store are a little pricey, but you're looking at about 2 grand more for an HVX system then running the A1... and is it safe to say that the HVX does all that the A1 and 100b do and more? You don't gotta go HD once you get it. Buy the cam, and save some dough shooting SD, before you can afford the P2's and then go HD maybe?

By the way, don't buy the 4299 HVX from Amazon. It's not from an Auth. Dealer.

New guy here.
 
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MemphisMourns said:
HDV is NOT HD. It's compressed.
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Umm that is some insane logic. HD is a pixel size for a picture, not a compression format. It doesn't matter whether it is captured on p2 card, mini dv tape, or a piece of cardboard. If the end result is a picture equal or greater than 1280x720 pixels, it is HD.

If hdv is really that bad you would not see such a great many people on this board interested, espcially in something as lowly as the hv20, let alone the XH-A1.
 
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