Canon HV20 review up at camcorderinfo.com
- Thread starter AuditoryVisuals
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xray
Well-known member
Gordon Prince said:
Hey, I agreed on you! The 'me too' was not for you. Lets bring this to a good end my friends.
24P is a gift, I'll shoot 25P today so I like it. HD video is developing and increases in quality. It's clean and high res, and besides the 24p cadence they also replicate color and gamma from the film. So film lives on in the HD cinema. But HD cinema also shoots with big chips, highend uncompressed or low compressed video in 4:4:4: or 4:2:2 space, with great lenses etc. In that, the quality issues remain and craftsmanship also.
Like low lousy 16mm film is no quality, low handycam shot HDV isn't. The fact that handcams can emulate 24p as it is, is not enough to bring cinematic satisfaction on the screen or to the viewer. There is more needed to create that, also in technically developments. RED is one company that is doing the transition. I'm not alone on a film-island, I know that it is changing, but it changes in the whole chain: high end image sensors, low compression, great fast lenses. And digital reproduction, editing and presentation.
But even shooting Fuji Velvia slide today brings a satisfaction that is unbelievable. There is something in it that is hard to replicate in digital photography.
So is analog a master for the digital future.
Peace.
Vincent Wong Yoon Wei
Active member
I don't know, it seems like xray is trying to tell us that just 24p is not film, and I think all of us here can agree with that.
But it seems like xray is also trying to say that we are not qualified to even talk about what constitute a 'film look' because most of us haven't worked on or shot on film before.
At the end of the day, the audience couldn't care less if it was shot on film or video as long as it looks like a movie to them.
FIlm or video, it's just a medium.
But it seems like xray is also trying to say that we are not qualified to even talk about what constitute a 'film look' because most of us haven't worked on or shot on film before.
At the end of the day, the audience couldn't care less if it was shot on film or video as long as it looks like a movie to them.
FIlm or video, it's just a medium.
Gordon Prince
Well-known member
xray said:
Okay but personal attacks are useless and aren't allowed at least here. All the members are welcome if their contributions are healthy.
Peace for once.
snowleopard
Well-known member
I think the article ignores any scale of relative comparison. Allow me to elaborate:
A Canon A1 (or HVX for that matter) shooting at 24p, with a Cine curve, in a controlled lighting situation is going to look much, much closer to film than, say, and old Betacam will. I bring this up because most people associate the look of video with footage shot with a Betacam, or something similar (VX1000, PD150, cheap 1 chip DV camera). As a matter of fact, in the hands of someone with skill, it will look very close to film, or "movies". So close, as others have pointed out, that most people can't tell the difference, and don't care. My guess is that the HV20 will come closer to looking like the A1 than Betacam. Hence, good enough or close enough to film for most people to look at it and go "it looks like movies do".
Saying 24p video doesn't look like film may be true in the purist sense. But omits the word "exactly". It doesn't look exactly like film. It may never - though someday soon it will likely look better in most people's eyes. For example, there tends to be scratches and dirt in film. Is that what one wants? Some do, hence Magic Bullet's "Misfire" and Boris and Digieffects' "Film Damage" filters. Is that the exact same as real dust and scratches or film damage? No, but used with skill, most people wouldn't notice, or care. Along these lines, a PD170 doesn't look like Betacam SP footage - it lacks the color depth most of all, but most people won't notice, or care.
Saying the HV20, or video in general doesn't look like film is fine. But it carries no more weight in comparison than saying 35mm doesn't look like 70mm, or video shot on a Phantom 65. No it doesn't, and it never will, but only in very certain circumstances will people know the difference, or really care. This is especially true when delivered in the medium most people will see it: on a TV screen.
A Canon A1 (or HVX for that matter) shooting at 24p, with a Cine curve, in a controlled lighting situation is going to look much, much closer to film than, say, and old Betacam will. I bring this up because most people associate the look of video with footage shot with a Betacam, or something similar (VX1000, PD150, cheap 1 chip DV camera). As a matter of fact, in the hands of someone with skill, it will look very close to film, or "movies". So close, as others have pointed out, that most people can't tell the difference, and don't care. My guess is that the HV20 will come closer to looking like the A1 than Betacam. Hence, good enough or close enough to film for most people to look at it and go "it looks like movies do".
Saying 24p video doesn't look like film may be true in the purist sense. But omits the word "exactly". It doesn't look exactly like film. It may never - though someday soon it will likely look better in most people's eyes. For example, there tends to be scratches and dirt in film. Is that what one wants? Some do, hence Magic Bullet's "Misfire" and Boris and Digieffects' "Film Damage" filters. Is that the exact same as real dust and scratches or film damage? No, but used with skill, most people wouldn't notice, or care. Along these lines, a PD170 doesn't look like Betacam SP footage - it lacks the color depth most of all, but most people won't notice, or care.
Saying the HV20, or video in general doesn't look like film is fine. But it carries no more weight in comparison than saying 35mm doesn't look like 70mm, or video shot on a Phantom 65. No it doesn't, and it never will, but only in very certain circumstances will people know the difference, or really care. This is especially true when delivered in the medium most people will see it: on a TV screen.
snowleopard
Well-known member
Thought I kind of did that, referring the article in my first sentence.
Well, on a thought, he did say in the review that the 24p footage looked beautiful. Also pointed out it held up in low light better than the HV10, if a hair grainy. Comments from anyone who has used one (or all three of these: HV20, HV20, A1)?
Well, on a thought, he did say in the review that the 24p footage looked beautiful. Also pointed out it held up in low light better than the HV10, if a hair grainy. Comments from anyone who has used one (or all three of these: HV20, HV20, A1)?
epsilonbass
Active member
xray said:For the record..., showing lists like *this* is almost egotistical.
HELP! My tape does not Fit !!
Of course the tape doesn't fit, the tape deck is on the other side of the camera... duh.
But back to the original topic, I find camcorderinfo reviews to have the bare minimum in finding out about cameras. I would point someone here to learn about cameras (even the hv20) before telling them to go to camcorderinfo.
But there is a lot of rehashed conversation that doesn't need to be going on. Just pick the right camera for your current finanical situation whether it be a hv20 or arri BL, and make your work. Time spent defending your camera is time you could be shooting with your camera.
prisma
Member
Yes it said that it perform really good in low ligth conditions and is due to the fact that it shoots at 24p. What kind of light kit do you guys recomend me to use with the HV20? regular flood lights? or this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=315916&is=REG
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=315916&is=REG
I am going out on a ledge here- but what if we created a film camera that had a "video like" feature......
Film vs. Video, Apple vs. PC, Midget wrestling vs. Mexican wrestling
To each there own but damn my HVX with an M2 adaptor looks good!
Barry you are always on point!
Film vs. Video, Apple vs. PC, Midget wrestling vs. Mexican wrestling
To each there own but damn my HVX with an M2 adaptor looks good!
Barry you are always on point!