Who's planning to buy an HV20?

jenningsp said:
i'm completely confident that this camera can produce pictures that rival the G1 and even the HVX.
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Why? No single-chip camera has ever matched a comparable 3-chip, much less a $1,000 camera matching a $5,000 or $7,000 one.

Let it be what it is, rather than trying to turn it into something it isn't. I ordered an HV20 (from mediasupplystore.com) because I think it's irresistible for what it is, at the price point that it comes in at, especially at the price they offered it at! But expecting a pocketcam to rival something that's way out of its league is just setting yourself up for disappointment. I mean, I love my Nokia N93, it's a great phone/web browser/PDA/still cam/video cam combo, but I don't expect its picture to match a DVXs (even though Nokia advertises it as taking "DVD-quality video", a 4-year-old DVX looks at least six hundred thousand times better than N93 video).
 
 
Barry_Green said:
Why? No single-chip camera has ever matched a comparable 3-chip, much less a $1,000 camera matching a $5,000 or $7,000 one.

Let it be what it is, rather than trying to turn it into something it isn't. I ordered an HV20 (from mediasupplystore.com) because I think it's irresistible for what it is, at the price point that it comes in at, especially at the price they offered it at! But expecting a pocketcam to rival something that's way out of its league is just setting yourself up for disappointment. I mean, I love my Nokia N93, it's a great phone/web browser/PDA/still cam/video cam combo, but I don't expect its picture to match a DVXs (even though Nokia advertises it as taking "DVD-quality video", a 4-year-old DVX looks at least six hundred thousand times better than N93 video).
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Well considering the HVX and the G1 came to the market before the HV20 there is a chance it can rival those products. They made compromises in other departments other than the picture. And considering that the HV10 rivaled the G1 and HVX in picture quality we can be hopeful that this cam will hold it's ground.

With that said I will be getting one later in the year. That price is amazing. I will try to trick it out for under the A1 price that is my goal. I just no in my heart that most people will use the A1 with mostly preset settings which means to me that I might not need all those options. It has a A1 like cine setting so I am good. 24f good. Pop on a 35mm adapter and you are good!
 
Eventually this thread may need to be retitled to "Who isn't planning on getting an HV-20?". :tongue:
 
Nik Manning said:
Well considering the HVX and the G1 came to the market before the HV20 there is a chance it can rival those products. They made compromises in other departments other than the picture. And considering that the HV10 rivaled the G1 and HVX in picture quality we can be hopeful that this cam will hold it's ground.

With that said I will be getting one later in the year. That price is amazing. I will try to trick it out for under the A1 price that is my goal. I just no in my heart that most people will use the A1 with mostly preset settings which means to me that I might not need all those options. It has a A1 like cine setting so I am good. 24f good. Pop on a 35mm adapter and you are good!
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exactly!!!! this camera has all the options you'd need and none of the ones you'd never use. the HV20, HVX and A1 all record the same 1080p, albeit slightly differently. add an XLR balance box and a 35mm adapter and you're set. you've got the same functionality and the same quality picture.

i'm planning on converting all my HDV 1080p25 footage to DVC 720p25. mainly because my little G4 has trouble with the HDV codec and it will hold up better in colour grading. i think you get around 720p 4:2:1.5 or something like that. it is incredibly close to the HVX.
in my tests when you convert the HDV footage to DVC it gets rid if that washed out look as well. i don't know why. it just seems to work.
 
I kind of want one for those situations I don't want to put my HVX in and the situations I can't (due to size). In fact I was thinking about the DVX for similar purposes, because it's so light compared to the HVX. But the HV20's footage would match the HVX's better, as least as far as aspect ratio goes--and it's HD as well. I also want a good personal, light run and gun cam. I'm looking forward to seeing footage.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Let it be what it is, rather than trying to turn it into something it isn't. I ordered an HV20 (from mediasupplystore.com) because I think it's irresistible for what it is, at the price point that it comes in at, especially at the price they offered it at! But expecting a pocketcam to rival something that's way out of its league is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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This is absolutely true. It's no Red either, it's a small handcorder, handy to use in all those circumstances a big lens is bringing you troubles or weight. And it can function as feeder in the editing.
 
Barry_Green said:
Why? No single-chip camera has ever matched a comparable 3-chip, much less a $1,000 camera matching a $5,000 or $7,000 one.

Let it be what it is, rather than trying to turn it into something it isn't. I ordered an HV20 (from mediasupplystore.com) because I think it's irresistible for what it is, at the price point that it comes in at, especially at the price they offered it at! But expecting a pocketcam to rival something that's way out of its league is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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Barry! It's not that bad. The HV10 is incredible. I think the resolution and dynamic range of the HV10 is better than the G1 (in my opinion). And most certainly the resolution of the HV10 is better than the HVX.

But of course it's not all just resolution. And even though it shoots 24p, I don't think the film look will be as great as the HVX. And also, it doesn't have all the controls such as variable framerates and gamma curves nor does it have a jackpack or encode in DVCPRO HD or record in 24p without pulldown. But it's not all that bad either!

It's a great camera. It's not a disappointment. It's about picture anyway! I think that it'll easily rival the picture quality of the G1 and HVX. Except in low light.
 
Elton said:
Eventually this thread may need to be retitled to "Who isn't planning on getting an HV-20?". :tongue:
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Indeed, my friend! It will sell like popcorn or still further.
 
jenningsp said:
exactly!!!! this camera has all the options you'd need and none of the ones you'd never use. the HV20, HVX and A1 all record the same 1080p, albeit slightly differently. add an XLR balance box and a 35mm adapter and you're set. you've got the same functionality and the same quality picture.

i'm planning on converting all my HDV 1080p25 footage to DVC 720p25. mainly because my little G4 has trouble with the HDV codec and it will hold up better in colour grading. i think you get around 720p 4:2:1.5 or something like that. it is incredibly close to the HVX.
in my tests when you convert the HDV footage to DVC it gets rid if that washed out look as well. i don't know why. it just seems to work.
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I understand that people are excited about this cam. Why not, its seemingly a little champ. But the reality is IT WILL NOT COMPARE to a 3chip HD cam.

Im sure it will be pretty good, I am sure some users of the HV20 will produce better results than some users of the A1/HVX. But that doesnt mean the cam is comparable it means that the users arent.
 
Extremely valid point, ncje. Capable people will do amazing things not matter the limitations. But lets not kid our selves. Things cost what they cost for a reason. Show up with the HV20 for a pro gig and you won't even have time to insert the tape before the guy tells you you are fired. Other than that I always said this camera is amazing and I have so doubt we'll see stunnig footage pretty soon. When I have some spare cash I plan to buy it for sure. But don't buy a miura thinking you're getting a ferrari (I know nothing about cars...is this comparison correct?)
 
Emanuel said:
Where's the link Rafa? I'm crazy for comparisions.
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Emanuel, the comparisons are on the links I posted. It's only a bunch of side by side frames shot under the same circumstances by different cameras (canon A1, HV10, sone sony, etc), Nothing very thorough though.
 
rawfa said:
But don't buy a miura thinking you're getting a ferrari (I know nothing about cars...is this comparison correct?)
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More like, Don't buy a Honda Civic expecting to get an Acura RSX or Honda S2000. Cause the HVX and A1 sure as hell ain't Ferraris, more equivalent to those two in comparison.
 
A little of topic, but according to Chris Hurd's write up about the HV20 :
"There's a Cine color mode available as well, which can be used with or without 24p. It's actually based on one of the Custom Presets included with the Canon XH A1 and G1 camcorders, number 8 (Cine.V.) The parameters of that preset are Gamma: Cine 1, Knee: Low, Black: Stretch, Sharpness: -4, Color Matrix: Cine 1, Color Gain: -20, Color Phase: +5, Red-Blue: -5, Green-Red: -5, Blue-Red: +5, and Red-Green: +12. When the HV20 begins shipping in April, it'll be interesting to see how this Cine color option matches up with Custom Preset 8 from an XH A1."

-Anybody want to weigh in on what this preset might be like on the A1?

Thanks,
 
Look under the presets (....) the numbers you missed in the HV20 list and those that are different. So you can't compare now, but in the end they match up. It is a gamma/color preset that is build to match the Hv20 with the XHA1/G1 in 'filmlike' appearance on video. (not for filmtransfer)


[ CUSTOM PRESET FILE ]
MODEL : "Canon XH A1"
NAME : "CINE.V "
GAMMA : CINE1
KNEE : LOW
BLACK : STRETCH
MASTER PED. : 0
SETUP LEVEL : 0
SHARPNESS : -4
H DTL FREQ : MIDDLE
DTL HV BAL : 0
CORING : 0
NR : OFF
NR2 : OFF
COLOR MAT. : CINE1
COLOR GAIN : -20
COLOR PHASE : 5
R GAIN : 0
G GAIN : 0
B GAIN : 0
RG MATRIX : 10 (+12)
RB MATRIX : -5
GR MATRIX : -5
GB MATRIX : -5 ( you miss that )
BR MATRIX : 5
BG MATRIX : 12 (you miss that )
TIMECODE : --:--:--:--
 
Have it in mind though that even though the preset in question is used by combining different image control settings (low, black, knee, stretch, color matrix, etc) you do not have direct access to those settings. I think the only settings available on the HV20 are sharpness, contrast, saturation and a 4th one I cannot remember. I downloaded the manual but I really can't recall right now.
 
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