XHA1 with Brevis Grabs from "Man to man"
- Thread starter scharky
- Start date
looks nice man. nice and organic.
I liek the shot of the Girl in the park.
I liek the shot of the Girl in the park.
marlontorres
Well-known member
looks like a tony scott movie. some would consider that a good thing... some... not so good 
rawfa
Veteran
Very nice indeed. Any chance we can see some footage? BTW, was this the standard brevis or one of the new modified ones with the different diffuser? Any color correction done on post? What camera settings did you use? This is actually the first A1+brevis footage I see that doesn't have color fringing...did Dennis modify anything?
well it still has color fringing, but its probbaly from the lens, not the BREVIS. if it was from the brevis it would have been consistent through all the shots. The third shot in prticualr shows it the most. look at the left side of the shot, on his collar and shoulder, you cansee the Chroma Abberation.
scharky
Veteran
Thanks for the comments guys, I'll try and answer as many questions as I can.
Tony Scott movie. . . so your saying it looks like a music video These scenes are flashback scenes and inserts so in a way they may have a bit of that Tony Scott look. . . don't know how I feel about that.
I can't show any footage just yet as this is not my film, I only have permission to show grabs just at the moment. This footage has been slightly color graded, but just as a general, nothing has been set in stone yet. As for my settings I'll give you a general breakdown of things I changed.
Normal Gamma
Master Ped -9
Setup -3
sharpness +2
Color matrix normal
Color gain +15
Red Gain -4
Thats about it off the top of my head.
Chromatic abberation. Heres the deal, there is actually quite a bit in some footage, however there is a reason. The Brevis that I used is not actually mine, mine is being shipped as we speak. The one I used is not really set up for the A1 as I ordered mine with the extension tube and I think Dennis has also added a stronger Achromat. This will allow me to zoom in more and use more of the center of the lens. As it is right now I am zoomed into the just barely the edges of the focusing screen causing some pretty significan CA on the edges, however I am able to control it using a selective color process and desaturating it. Next week I will have my Brevis set up correctly and I expect the issue will dissapear as the center of the frame rarely had any CA and no softness whatsoever.
As far as the Brevis vs the Letus. Well it's interesting that the concept behind these two is very similar and function in much the same way. But besides that connection the Brevis blows the Letus 35A out of the water in the following.
Sharpness, brevis has way more resolving power, less softness on the edges
Construction, There is no comparison, Brevis is pro all the way, the letus always seemd like a home project that I was working on to improve or just try to make function correctly without sagging or falling apart on set.
Solidness, this goes along with the construction, but is worth mentioning, the letus always had a bit a play, could always be pushed or pulled one way or another, was never really solid, infact when I would use a follow focus and change direction of the gears, the lens would shift one way or the other depending on the turn. . . not good. The Brevis is solid as the camera body itself. There is no play when the unit is set up and it just feels safe. I never felt safe with the Letus, I was always waiting for something to fall apart.
With that said, the Letus was a great first adapter, cheap, looks good in SD and I got alot of work out of it. For how much I paid for it, it was worth every penny and paid for itself about 20x over in the time that I was using it.
Tony Scott movie. . . so your saying it looks like a music video
These scenes are flashback scenes and inserts so in a way they may have a bit of that Tony Scott look. . . don't know how I feel about that.I can't show any footage just yet as this is not my film, I only have permission to show grabs just at the moment. This footage has been slightly color graded, but just as a general, nothing has been set in stone yet. As for my settings I'll give you a general breakdown of things I changed.
Normal Gamma
Master Ped -9
Setup -3
sharpness +2
Color matrix normal
Color gain +15
Red Gain -4
Thats about it off the top of my head.
Chromatic abberation. Heres the deal, there is actually quite a bit in some footage, however there is a reason. The Brevis that I used is not actually mine, mine is being shipped as we speak. The one I used is not really set up for the A1 as I ordered mine with the extension tube and I think Dennis has also added a stronger Achromat. This will allow me to zoom in more and use more of the center of the lens. As it is right now I am zoomed into the just barely the edges of the focusing screen causing some pretty significan CA on the edges, however I am able to control it using a selective color process and desaturating it. Next week I will have my Brevis set up correctly and I expect the issue will dissapear as the center of the frame rarely had any CA and no softness whatsoever.
As far as the Brevis vs the Letus. Well it's interesting that the concept behind these two is very similar and function in much the same way. But besides that connection the Brevis blows the Letus 35A out of the water in the following.
Sharpness, brevis has way more resolving power, less softness on the edges
Construction, There is no comparison, Brevis is pro all the way, the letus always seemd like a home project that I was working on to improve or just try to make function correctly without sagging or falling apart on set.
Solidness, this goes along with the construction, but is worth mentioning, the letus always had a bit a play, could always be pushed or pulled one way or another, was never really solid, infact when I would use a follow focus and change direction of the gears, the lens would shift one way or the other depending on the turn. . . not good. The Brevis is solid as the camera body itself. There is no play when the unit is set up and it just feels safe. I never felt safe with the Letus, I was always waiting for something to fall apart.
With that said, the Letus was a great first adapter, cheap, looks good in SD and I got alot of work out of it. For how much I paid for it, it was worth every penny and paid for itself about 20x over in the time that I was using it.
Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
Rafael, the CA is definitely not the adapter. Without going into specifics, the Brevis has been completely optimized for both transmission, and freedom from CA. It is virtually free from chromatic issues. The only footage (posted here anyway) that I shot with the A1 was using a Canon FD 50mm which is turning out to be rather nasty with respect to CA. Wayne K. had the same lens on during the "shootout" of the SGpro, M2 and Brevis..and his footage showed the same blue fringing. The M2 and Brevis version of the test was done with Zeiss lenses and displayed no fringing. One of my favourite lenses, the Minolta Rokkor MD 50mm f1.4 has far less CA, but shows surpising barrel distortion. Go figure.
As far as the A1 is concerned, the zoom in required to frame/focus the GG and setting the A1 at f2.8 or higher will take care of the camera's contribution to the issue. I've only seen CA from the A1 lens in my own testing at open aperture, full wide.
As far as the A1 is concerned, the zoom in required to frame/focus the GG and setting the A1 at f2.8 or higher will take care of the camera's contribution to the issue. I've only seen CA from the A1 lens in my own testing at open aperture, full wide.
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guskersthecat said:
Yea an "inexpensive" adapter solution like the Brevis/SG/M2 are only as good as the glass you put in front of them. Cheap out on lenses, or choose, the wrong type, you get CA and other problems.
If youre shooting Canon glass, make SURE you get the S.S.C. Models. they tend to be better. i have 4 and i love them all.
Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
Schark, one thing you'll also need to be carefull with is the blue fringing from the A1. (I'm confusing the issue with the Canon FD lens...which is more like purple fringing) It shows up with a white background, usually at 80 to 100 IRE, when contrasting dark objects are in front. Look for it first in the left side of your frame, on the right side of the object.
The easiest way to reproduce this is by shooting an overcast (white sky) with tree branches across the frame (no adapter on the cam)....even with the sky at 85 IRE, you'll see the blue fringing. Drove me crazy when I first saw it with the Brevis on the A1. It's not CA, and it's not the A1 lens...it's more likely HDV compression on the cam. Once you see it, you'll know how to avoid it. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same issue raised on the Sony HDV implementation too.
If you look at your last shot, extreme upper left, you'll see the blue fringing...and unfortunately, it's the A1 itself doing this :-( CA looks more like this: http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/Chromatic.html
The easiest way to reproduce this is by shooting an overcast (white sky) with tree branches across the frame (no adapter on the cam)....even with the sky at 85 IRE, you'll see the blue fringing. Drove me crazy when I first saw it with the Brevis on the A1. It's not CA, and it's not the A1 lens...it's more likely HDV compression on the cam. Once you see it, you'll know how to avoid it. I'm pretty sure I've seen the same issue raised on the Sony HDV implementation too.
If you look at your last shot, extreme upper left, you'll see the blue fringing...and unfortunately, it's the A1 itself doing this :-( CA looks more like this: http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/Chromatic.html
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scharky
Veteran
Yeah, I've seen this as well with straight A1 footage but honestly it doesn't really bother me. I don't, however, understand how this could be a compression issue and that it only affects the very edges of the frame. It seems more likely to be an optical issue, maybe an issue with the coating on the lenses and the way it refracts light onto the edges of the CCD. Whatever it is, I honestly don't have a problem with it.
rawfa
Veteran
scharky said:
I have to agree with you, Sharky. It looks and feels optical. But I don't think it's anything to worry about. It's that extreme as to distract your attention from the content. I've only notice after I took a second loot at the stills. I'm sure that with moving images with a story being told people won't even notice.
Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
The A1 fringing only bothers me in that when posting adapter footage (that tends to get very closely analyzed) I get comments that the adapter has chromatic issues. There were some posts regarding the XL-H1 that suggested the fringing was a CCD filter/shielding issue, and that does make more sense. I took some footage with our latest prototype diffuser (just got our hands on it Friday) with snow as a background and the high contrast areas had enough blue fringing to keep me from posting the footage. The solution is more fill light on the subjects.
Elton, a relay solution is on the table...likely later this spring after the option flip module is done. It's a bit of a trick as we want the relay module to work with or without the flip module. An optical flip makes no sense with cams like the HD200 which can do this electronically.
In any case, Scharky, post up some footy when you're all set. I'm looking forward to seeing this work.
Elton, a relay solution is on the table...likely later this spring after the option flip module is done. It's a bit of a trick as we want the relay module to work with or without the flip module. An optical flip makes no sense with cams like the HD200 which can do this electronically.
In any case, Scharky, post up some footy when you're all set. I'm looking forward to seeing this work.
Elton
Veteran
Dennis,
Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the time you take to answer the questions on these threads.
So, am I correct in the basic assumption that there is the possibility of less chromatic issues if this adapter had no video lens in front of it? Is it just the basic issue of complex glass in the Canon 20x lenses, and particularly not opening the iris up all the way? Doesn't this theoretically lose some sensitivity that might be retained if the adapter simply projected the image with its own relay lens, mounted on the XL?
FWIW, I don't think the issue is a deal breaker at all. Scharky's stuff looks fine and I know there are ways to massage out CA in post, but if I could ideally not introduce the issue at all, so much the better. Plus, I think the Brevis would look hot just mounted directly to the H1! (with a setup like your latest A1 pic)
Thanks again!
Thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate the time you take to answer the questions on these threads.
So, am I correct in the basic assumption that there is the possibility of less chromatic issues if this adapter had no video lens in front of it? Is it just the basic issue of complex glass in the Canon 20x lenses, and particularly not opening the iris up all the way? Doesn't this theoretically lose some sensitivity that might be retained if the adapter simply projected the image with its own relay lens, mounted on the XL?
FWIW, I don't think the issue is a deal breaker at all. Scharky's stuff looks fine and I know there are ways to massage out CA in post, but if I could ideally not introduce the issue at all, so much the better. Plus, I think the Brevis would look hot just mounted directly to the H1! (with a setup like your latest A1 pic)
Thanks again!
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Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
The discussions I've read on the blue fringing issue with the XL-H1 have suggested that the issue is occuring independent of the lens. The XH-A1 lens is excellent with regard to CA, so my thoughts are that the issue has something to do with the optics directly in front of the CCD's, not the video lens. This might suggest that even a relay lens/adapter setup on the XL-H1 would see the blue fringing. On the GS400 you would see the same fringing in high contrast situations, but red.
Perhaps the answer lies in the trichroic prism assembly in front of the CCDs?
Perhaps the answer lies in the trichroic prism assembly in front of the CCDs?
Elton
Veteran
Hmmm, that could very well be the case. Still, I've seen some very high contrast stuff with the LetusXL and the H1 that showed no blue fringing whatsoever. I'm sure there are a host of factors that may explain it, but it seems like in theory the less glass between the adapter and the CCD's, the better. But there's always a gap between theory and the real world.
How difficult is it to make an XL mount like the Letus has?
How difficult is it to make an XL mount like the Letus has?
Dennis Wood
DVXuser Sponsor
It's not difficult at all. Taking the time to do it right is the issue