Barry_Green
Moderator
Hmmm. If your font is bigger than mine, does that make you "right"?
Sorry, that "dead end" statement is ridiculous on the face of it. To say P2 is a "dead end", right after Fox decided to convert all their stations to P2-only... doesn't that sound like *not* a dead-end? To say it's a dead end right after the Australian Broadcasting Corp just converted to P2-only, seems somewhat contradictive, doesn't it? Or is it that HDV shooters know something that these multibillion-dollar massive broadcasting conglomerates don't? I mean, the BBC bought HDV cameras, a bunch of Sony Z1s (but, they told their shooters to never use them to shoot HD! They were for use only as widescreen DV. When they needed a handheld camera to shoot the Olympics with, did they shoot 'em on HDV? Er, no, it was something else... what was it again? Oh yeah, the P2 HVX200.)
Let's try it a different way -- if you'd said "I can't work with P2, it's totally unsuitable for my style of shooting" then I woulda said "fine, hey, it's not for everyone." But instead you made a blanket incendiary statement that is patently and provably false. Hence it borders on trolling. Far from being a dead end, P2 is gaining traction and speed and rapid adoption. When they finally have the 32GB card out in 10 months, this game is going to change forever.
Besides, have you noticed that all those same companies (except JVC) who endorsed HDV are now members of the AVC-HD coalition? Which is a completely tapeless format. If someone wanted to point to what's truly a "dead end", wouldn't the evidence point towards TAPE as being the dead end? Obviously not today, it still works for today and there's probably quite a ways yet to travel on that road, but the broadcasters and the manufacturers are moving away from it at a rapid pace. Five years from now, will we be working/living in a tape-based footage acquisition society? Not a chance, if Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Samsung, Sharp, Ikegami, Red, Thomson/Grass Valley, and Canon have anything to say about it. Every one of them is offering tapeless camcorders right now or are promising the same (or, in Canon's and Sharp's case, have joined the AVC-HD coalition intending to produce tapeless camcorders.)
So if you want to take a position that you just don't like the P2 system or tapeless recording, there's nothing wrong with that. But all the momentum is behind tapeless, networks are going tapeless, and the BBC has committed to going tapeless (and they're trialing two tapeless systems, Infinity and P2; they've already ruled out XDCAM-HD). Every manufacturer is going tapeless already. While we can't say with absolute certainty, we can say with very good probability that tape's days are numbered. And with P2 being the only solid-state recording system out there right now, is it really any wonder that broadcasters like Fox who want to go tapeless are looking at and buying the P2 system? I don't know if P2 will have a five-year run, or a 15-year run, but far from being a dead end, it's just warming up.
With that said, P2 is never going to be a mass-consumer item. That's what AVC-HD is for. AVC-HD on SD cards gives you the P2-style workflow but using cheap memory cards. So if we're going with "predictions" and opinions, I say broadcasters and professional production companies will go with the P2 system (or other solid-state recording systems that may be introduced), consumers/prosumers will embrace AVC-HD. And tape is left for dead, three years from now no manufacturer will even be offering an HDV camcorder.
Sorry, that "dead end" statement is ridiculous on the face of it. To say P2 is a "dead end", right after Fox decided to convert all their stations to P2-only... doesn't that sound like *not* a dead-end? To say it's a dead end right after the Australian Broadcasting Corp just converted to P2-only, seems somewhat contradictive, doesn't it? Or is it that HDV shooters know something that these multibillion-dollar massive broadcasting conglomerates don't? I mean, the BBC bought HDV cameras, a bunch of Sony Z1s (but, they told their shooters to never use them to shoot HD! They were for use only as widescreen DV. When they needed a handheld camera to shoot the Olympics with, did they shoot 'em on HDV? Er, no, it was something else... what was it again? Oh yeah, the P2 HVX200.)
Let's try it a different way -- if you'd said "I can't work with P2, it's totally unsuitable for my style of shooting" then I woulda said "fine, hey, it's not for everyone." But instead you made a blanket incendiary statement that is patently and provably false. Hence it borders on trolling. Far from being a dead end, P2 is gaining traction and speed and rapid adoption. When they finally have the 32GB card out in 10 months, this game is going to change forever.
Besides, have you noticed that all those same companies (except JVC) who endorsed HDV are now members of the AVC-HD coalition? Which is a completely tapeless format. If someone wanted to point to what's truly a "dead end", wouldn't the evidence point towards TAPE as being the dead end? Obviously not today, it still works for today and there's probably quite a ways yet to travel on that road, but the broadcasters and the manufacturers are moving away from it at a rapid pace. Five years from now, will we be working/living in a tape-based footage acquisition society? Not a chance, if Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Samsung, Sharp, Ikegami, Red, Thomson/Grass Valley, and Canon have anything to say about it. Every one of them is offering tapeless camcorders right now or are promising the same (or, in Canon's and Sharp's case, have joined the AVC-HD coalition intending to produce tapeless camcorders.)
So if you want to take a position that you just don't like the P2 system or tapeless recording, there's nothing wrong with that. But all the momentum is behind tapeless, networks are going tapeless, and the BBC has committed to going tapeless (and they're trialing two tapeless systems, Infinity and P2; they've already ruled out XDCAM-HD). Every manufacturer is going tapeless already. While we can't say with absolute certainty, we can say with very good probability that tape's days are numbered. And with P2 being the only solid-state recording system out there right now, is it really any wonder that broadcasters like Fox who want to go tapeless are looking at and buying the P2 system? I don't know if P2 will have a five-year run, or a 15-year run, but far from being a dead end, it's just warming up.
With that said, P2 is never going to be a mass-consumer item. That's what AVC-HD is for. AVC-HD on SD cards gives you the P2-style workflow but using cheap memory cards. So if we're going with "predictions" and opinions, I say broadcasters and professional production companies will go with the P2 system (or other solid-state recording systems that may be introduced), consumers/prosumers will embrace AVC-HD. And tape is left for dead, three years from now no manufacturer will even be offering an HDV camcorder.
Last edited:
