MASOCHISM- an Alex Jeffery film

Alex Jeffery said:
I actually wasn't getting at any of that... you might be reading too far into it.
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Sure, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but you might want to take to heart the comments that you're getting in this thread - a lot of people aren't getting your story, and that seems like a problem.
 
I think the only reason people aren't "getting it", is because they make the mistake of "there's got to be more to it than that", and instead the answer is like in the old joke "it might look stupid, but do not be fooled, it really is that stupid".

You cannot seriously expect anyone over the age of 5 to go "wow, don't tell me, people into S&M might find that they got more than they bargained for?" Stop the presses! Captain Obvious in da house!

I mean if at least you went somewhere with this - "she awakened a monster she shouldn't have ever touched" in some kind of interesting way, maybe, and I say maybe, you'd have something. But this is so utterly lame, that the only reaction one gets from this is: "oookaaay, and? and? and?" "this is it?!? you're kidding? seriously?" So people go "I must be missing something, it can't possibly be this lame, there's got to be more to it... ok, I DON'T GET IT". But there's nothing to get.

I'm not even going to bother remarking on the acting, but the dialogue, the story, the whole "content" - utterly hopeless.

Some nice images, has some visual style.

My advice - sit down and really think about the story before shooting. Harsh, but sometimes it's best to hear it straight.
 
Pretty much what i was going to say Corpse. Ill sum up my after viewing reaction though in one word:

Why?
 
Just watched it. Much of the camera work I liked. Obviously you weren't afraid to move the camera around and go for off angle shots.
I'm not going to harp about story and dialogue and such. It's been said.
Just one note though.....when you're editing location sound, be careful to edit out when you say "action."
 
OldCorpse said:
I think the only reason people aren't "getting it", is because they make the mistake of "there's got to be more to it than that", and instead the answer is like in the old joke "it might look stupid, but do not be fooled, it really is that stupid".

You cannot seriously expect anyone over the age of 5 to go "wow, don't tell me, people into S&M might find that they got more than they bargained for?" Stop the presses! Captain Obvious in da house!

I mean if at least you went somewhere with this - "she awakened a monster she shouldn't have ever touched" in some kind of interesting way, maybe, and I say maybe, you'd have something. But this is so utterly lame, that the only reaction one gets from this is: "oookaaay, and? and? and?" "this is it?!? you're kidding? seriously?" So people go "I must be missing something, it can't possibly be this lame, there's got to be more to it... ok, I DON'T GET IT". But there's nothing to get.

I'm not even going to bother remarking on the acting, but the dialogue, the story, the whole "content" - utterly hopeless.

Some nice images, has some visual style.

My advice - sit down and really think about the story before shooting. Harsh, but sometimes it's best to hear it straight.
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I pretty much agree, to an extent. I think the movie loses its impact out of context. It was made for a romantic comedy festival, and that's the twist.

While none of anybody's comments are constructive, I am taking them to heart and will improve on them next time. I do, however, think that saying the dialogue and story are utterly "hopeless" is a little strong. This is like my second real attempt at writing and directing a short film, and I've seen things far worse from this both technically and story wise. Let it be known that I hate making excuses, and that's not what I want this to be. A bad film is a bad film. However, I guess I was hoping for more constructive things than "the story sucks, the lighting is ok."

The film actually got the response I wanted out of it at the festival, so I guess that's a plus.

Anywho, I guess I'm really taken aback by all the negative things people have said. I'm not saying I expected good response, just maybe more helpful responses.

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to watch it though. I will put more time and thought into my next script.
 
Alex Jeffery said:
While none of anybody's comments are constructive, I am taking them to heart and will improve on them next time...I will put more time and thought into my next script.
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Well, actually, people's comments were constructive and, in the end, you responded appropriately. You just haven't realized it yet.

People told you that your film looked great. Then they told you that your story either didn't make sense, was offensive, or was hopeless. Sorry, but that was the overwhelming consensus regarding your story. If we didn't respond the way your college film school buddies responded, it may be because we were looking at it a few years past the inside joke that you were playing on (we don't care that the joke was that it was for a romantic comedy festival - we weren't there, so we're all just responding to your piece on it's own merits - and we found them lacking).

Believe me, we all got it - we were just trying to prod you to go beyond the sophomoric joke and live up to the promise of your lighting and cinematography.

If you want to make pretty pictures, and not worry too much about content - make music videos (and nothing wrong with that and more power to you). If you fancy yourself as a writer and director, then move quickly beyond this one trick pony and really start focusing on telling stories about real people with a clear beginning, middle and end (it was the middle that you were entirely lacking in this particular piece).

You clearly have the relationships you need with people who can make your stories look good - so give them something of substance to work with, and give your actors some real people to play, and you may just have something.

I hope this criticism was of some use to you.
 
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Bus No. 8 said:
I hope this criticism was of some use to you.
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Definitely. Thanks for the input.

By no means do I feel that I'm a good writer/director yet, I guess just to hear that it's "hopeless" is what I found daunting.

But thank you for the further explaination of what has been said, and I will continue posting future films.

-Alex
 
Alex Jeffery said:
Definitely. Thanks for the input.

By no means do I feel that I'm a good writer/director yet, I guess just to hear that it's "hopeless" is what I found daunting.

But thank you for the further explaination of what has been said, and I will continue posting future films.

-Alex
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It's a good sign that you are not being too defensive. That means you are willing to learn. Good on you.

Just to clarify: I never said you were hopeless as a director/writer. I said the story was hopeless. That's a big difference. Watch the first-time movies and/or shorts of some famous directors. Often... hopeless! Which didn't mean they couldn't turn in a second or third movie that was brilliant. Why? Because they learned. A hopeless director/writer is one that cannot learn.

For the record, I don't think you are hopeless as a director. I remarked upon the fact that you had some visual style with some nice images - that counts for something. Even if you didn't block a single shot, at least it means you have enough of an eye to pick a DP who is good. Don't laugh - you'd be shocked how often a director has no clue about what's good cinematography and what's not. I just had the depressing experience of reviewing DP reels for a project, together with the director. Now, this is a director who's working in Hollywood, and already did three features for studios. Guess what, he didn't have the faintest clue about which DP to pick! No idea, and furthermore, didn't care. Now, to be sure, he was pretty insistent on storytelling, and has some talent in that department (which is ultimately what the audience really cares about - storytelling), but when it comes to cinematography, he'd just as soon pick a DP at random. So, directors can have different strengths. And the folks who have no strenghts and no ability to learn - those are the hopless ones... and that's not you.

Finally, I gotta disagree about the "not constructive" nature of the feedback you got.

In a nutshell, it said something that you should always remember. It's a good thing to engrave and hang on a wall, if you want to be a feature director: It's all about the story.

The audience cares about the story first. Get that right, and you're pretty much home free. You can have no skills otherwise, and the professionals who work with you on the set can pick up the slack. But if you have no sense of the story - you're dead. Which means you have got to put maximum effort in the screenplay stage of your work. That was the substance of the criticism you got - your story was lacking. And that's why the feedback was so harsh - because that's a cardinal sin. It's like a man dying of cancer - whatever pimples he may have don't matter as much as the number one problem: TERMINAL CANCER.

Secondarily, get the best actors and the best work out of your actors you can. That's it right there: 98% of the movie. Story + Actors = 98%. The rest, directing style, lighting, sound, editing - isn't worth a hill of beans if you get the Story or Acting wrong.

Keep at it. Keep plugging away. Mostly on paper :)

Good luck!
 
I feel bad for you Alex. I think you did great for your first off. Look, if you're happy with it, then great. If you're not then, why did you work on this?

Personally, I wouldn't ask for people's reviews of your work. Try not to read reviews or ask for feedback. I personally think if you're a filmmaker, you're job is to make films and not to improve. Some person is always going to love your film and they'll be the most insane strange person you've ever met (enter me). Public reviews will usually hurt you. It sets up a strange relationship that will never fulfil you. If they say they like it then, you'll cater to make them like it MORE. If they say they didn't like it, which 100% of the time they won't fully (mainly because films are subjective things with different elements that work or dont for any given reason), you'll start to worry that you're an idiot.

It's nice to see yourself in print, tv, getting awards. I just prefer not to read that stuff. I don't always like Woody Allen but he won't read reviews. He just makes movies. That's probably the only reason I go out and see his films because I'm curious what he's trying to work out in his films. With this new generation of interactivity where we can respond to media, everyone's a critic because everyone has their own take on stuff and a forum. This is probably a good thing in some ways. Look, before I go off on a tangent (anymore than I already have), good luck. Hopefully, you'll continue to make strange and dark 'feel bad' films. Some will suck and others I'll love.

Oh, and never respond to a bad review, unless you're Vince Gallo.
 
if you're a filmmaker, you're job is to make films and not to improve

Do you really mean this? Do you think this only applies to filmmakers, or should it apply to other artistic disciplines as well?

Do you really want to watch an actor who believes that his job is only to act, and not to improve? Do you really want to listen to a musician who believes that her job is only to play, and not to improve?

Personally, I'd rather learn my craft and accept constructive criticism until I feel confident enough in my abilities before telling the world to fu@# off.

Really, the macho auteur thing gets tiresome when it's assumed but not earned.
 
What bruiserbox has said is beautiful. I wouldn't necessarily say that filmmakers should never improve, but I think it's important to remember that improving is simply getting more masterful with your craft. For instance, if I wanted to convey one emotion with my film but lacked the skills to pull it off... my film wouldnt be as effective as I had hoped. But only through experience and practice will I be able to get that emotion across to my audience.

Bus No. 8 is correct in relating it to a musician. I wouldn't sit and listen to a cellist pluck away on his/her strings if there was nothing to it. Call it "avante garde" but theres no way he'll be able to convince me that his lack of skill can be considered any form of art.

Love this discussion and this thread. It's really cool to work on this film and then read all of the comments and great discussion. Love love love it!
 
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