Sony V1 and Canon XHA1 side by side

identity said:
I think it was the avatar. It's funny how we associate people with their avatar (btw, my avatar is actually a picture of me. SCARY).
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Me too.. way MORE scary. :eek:
 
scharky said:
Honestly, not a big fan of the V1-U. It produces a pretty decent image, however it has horrible user controls. Litterall everything is burried in menus and to adjust the shutter speed and aperature you actually have to toggle between the two of them. I can't tell you how long it took me to figure out how to get the dang thing off of AE.
Besides it's little quirks and it's 1/4" ccd's it's a decent camera, but for the money the A1 is the clear winner.
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Agreed Sharkey, finding the controls initially for me (yes I read the manual before the cam arrived) and then going over it with the cam in front of me still took awhile. Some settings are dependant on others and theres no switch you can just hit or turn to go all manual.

Few thoughts thus far before I start to shoot.

1/ Sony has a smaller form factor - this is good for some Id imagine, then others (me included) like something a bit beefier.
2/ Sony works in progressive 24p mode only on Vegas at this point in time. This happens with a lot of cams and if it werent for the XLH1 Id suggest the A1 users would still be waiting using workarounds as well.
3/ Sony has a much larger LCD, add to that its focus peaking function is much clearer and adjustable so theres no doubt, hard to miss those redlines. That said I found the results a little inconsistant, jumping back and forth.For example I manually focused both cams with peaking. Then engaged the IAF of both cams, Canon was same as my manual setting, sometimes the Sony was not. Might need some practice.
4/ Sony has similar setting functions as the DVX, minus master pedestal.
 
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I wanted to just throw a quick update - at present I am getting some ugly blockiness in the Sony V1 - I am not sure of the cause, specifically I am trying to confirm if its the result of capturing through AIC on FCP.
 
elderban said:
Here's a side by side...by side of the XH-A1, V1U and FX1 in a low-light situation:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=83844
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See but that's just the thing, I'm so sick of low light tests, who shoots at DB gain? Who shoots with no light, and why people :). My real world tests have shown that in shadowy areas, properly exposed by both cameras (not set the same by both cameras) that the V1U is much noisier in the shadows and noisier in general. Now when the cameras are gained up to an ungodly amount who knows, maybe the V1u produces less new noise, but honestly I don't care and honestly can't figure out why so many people spend so much time doing tests with cameras that really aren't what the camera is made for.
 
ncje said:
I wanted to just throw a quick update - at present I am getting some ugly blockiness in the Sony V1 - I am not sure of the cause, specifically I am trying to confirm if its the result of capturing through AIC on FCP.
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I'm guessing it's because the Sony is using a longer GOP with interlace encoding for 60i HDV playback compatibility.

Canon's 24F is cleaner in terms of compression artifacts because it only encodes 24 frames progressive with no interlace whatsoever. (ironically coming from an interlace CCD) 20% more dedicated bandwidth and no interlace encoding, which we all know MPEG2 isn't as good at. Neither is MPEG4.

I think 24F is possibly 25-30% more efficient than 60i encoding. And that's if all things are relatively equal between different manufacturer's encoders--which I don't think they are in reality.
 
NCJE, you should just capture as 60i HDV if you want to confirm that the blockies aren't AIC-induced.
 
scharky said:
See but that's just the thing, I'm so sick of low light tests, who shoots at DB gain? .
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Me..... Unfortunately.

I do alot of wedding videography work, and there are so many situations where the amount of light is inadequate and frightening. These little tests are very valuable for those of us who are in uncontrolled, and often unpredictable, lighting situations such as weddings.

On a separate not, it helps to know how well a camera will perform if a light stealer like a 35mm adapter is attached. A half stop can make a huge difference.
 
Thanks for waking me up Elton. i had a small clip I did capture that way and its the same. A guy over at DVinfo posted a still also with the same thing from a PAL cam. If thi s is the image the cam delivers then its not acceptable.
 
do you bring your own light kits to the weddings. i never depend on any venue lights, i always bring mine and take from there
 
redfuse said:
When is it coming?
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Well due to the initial delay because of some things in the footage I needed to clarify, I am now stuck in the editing room working on 3 completed shoots. Should find some time this coming Saturday to throw them up.
 
Sawra said:
do you bring your own light kits to the weddings. i never depend on any venue lights, i always bring mine and take from there
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I haven't shot a wedding in awhile -- but when I did them I wasn't hired to be conspicuous.

Presumably the artist who sets up lights for a wedding is expected to be a part of the entertainment. A different stylistic niche.
 
t-h-e-w-h-o said:
why was everyone thinking ncje was a female?
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Hum...probably because his avatar shows a picture of a woman...

Anyway, I had a V1 in my hands today. I didn't get to shoot with it explore it though. I was with a guy who wanted to try out my adapter. He complained about the lack of image control, but all in all he was happy with the camera. It's really small and light next to the A1. The LCD is bigger and better. To be honest I really hate the A1's lcd. It's really small and it feels like a toy that'll break at any moment...other than that I won't trade my A1 for anything! :)
 
For anybody interested, here is the link to a new file, containg comparison of the V1E 50i sharpness 7, 25p sharpness 7, 25p sharpness 5 and 25p sharpness 3 video:

http://rapidshare.com/files/1791047...harpness7-3.m2v

While with sharpness turn down to 3 from 7 (the default) looks a little soft, it's on par with the default XH picture; all "dancing pixels" are eliminated. Sharpness 5 is IMHO a very good compromise.
 
Yes Im very sorry its taken so long. Im delivering on some projects at the moment which means 0 time. Work, family etc.

I promise to post up the images ASAP.

Heres a little writeup from some notes I made. Images will come when I get a chance to run them out. These are my own impressions. For the most part I skim the obvious differences that you can view in specs side by side, except a few.

Form factor: The V1 is small. I think this will be a big PLUS for many shooting geurilla style stuff, trying to be inobtrusive etc. Me personally, not really into a smaller cam, I like to treat my cam like its a beast, and this V1 was just to small for me.

24 Progressive scan mode: I loved the look of the images coming out of the V1 in 24P mode. I think I like them a little more than the A1 in fact. It has that real film quality to it. Sadly thats where it ended (read on).

Audio: Mic straight to cam via XLR was very good quality. For my ears better than A1, many may disagree on this point. But the audio controls were better and easier to use than the A1. Interestingly enough on a premixer I was getting better sound quality from the A1? I have no idea how that works. Mic straight to XLR sound is very subjective and would most likely differ person to person.

Standard hood: There is no lense cap on the V1. It has a switch which opens and close a pair of shutters that slide back into the hood. I thought this was pretty neat.

LCD: Much bigger than the A1, I find the A1 LCD however much more accurate, the V1 lcd is bland and flat.

Batteries: V1 I had came with 2 large Sony batteries each capable of around 480 minutes at full charge. SO with two batteries you can shoot for 16 hours no problems.

Camera menus: On the V1 they are easy to navigate and pretty straight forward. What I didnt like was the minimal image control options. Even less than the DVX - Wheres the master pedestal?

Images: This is where things went a little south for me and also explained the lack of image control options in the menu. The reality is the V1 image straight from the cam watching on your NLE on a 21inch apple display looks good. Thats where it ended for me. The A1 image can be pushed and pulled in your NLE without any issues at all the V1 is another matter. (Please remember this is from the cam I used). The V1 has some serious blocking, epecially in mids to darks areas where the A1 is generally clean. When you view the A1 and V1 side by side with the images pushed to 200% the difference is night and day. When the image is evenly lit (very little shade) the problem is reduced considerably, but who shoots flat bright images with nos shade?

I have read about the oil paint effect on the V1 and really didnt see it. But to me the blocking seems like a bigger issue. Point to note that when I rendered out to SD DVD for a 42inch plasma I couldnt see the blocking. It was only when I was viewing the image at 200% in my NLE. Im not talking about pixelation here either. The images (when I get a chance to post them will show clearly what I am talking about.

The A1 renders out images much better than the V1 - bottom line. I also noticed that the V1 noise whilst about the same as the A1 dances around like a bunch of panicked monkeys making it much more visible.

Finally, without a doubt the bokeh on the A1 is far prettier than the V1, most likely because above (Im not that technically inclined to pinpoint the reason exactly).

Images are coming but if you have a question about something I missed post and Ill see if I can answer. If I cant answer, sorry, but I wont speculate on something I am not sure about.
 
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