Which Scene File and/or Settings for Cinema Look

David Saraceno

David Saraceno

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Staff member
I've been experimenting with various settings to achieve a "film" look with various settings to achieve a better film look.

I want to set aside shallow depth of field from scene settings.

Is there a resource on a step by step or stock preset for a film look quality apart from shallow DOF?

And is there some additional suggestions for achieving a shallow DOF with a stock cam?

I've read Barry's excepts on the latter and am asking for some real world suggestions that work . . . to some degree

Thank you
 
David S. said:
Is there a resource on a step by step or stock preset for a film look quality apart from shallow DOF?
Click to expand...

Have you tried scene files 5 & 6?

David S. said:
And is there some additional suggestions for achieving a shallow DOF with a stock cam?
Click to expand...

Iris wide open, zoom in, distance between camera and subject, distance between subject of focus and background.

David S. said:
I've read Barry's excepts on the latter and am asking for some real world suggestions that work . . . to some degree

Thank you
Click to expand...

Stock HVX, zoomed all the way in. Iris open @2.8. camera to pill, about 2 feet, pill to botlle, about 18 inches. Check it out.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/17814/1168249433.mov
 
David,

Although the "film" look is variable and mostly depends on your particular preferences with regard to chroma saturation, contrast and color balance I've created my own custom preset to match a "high contrast/chrome" look which mimicks my experience shooting film. These settings are specific to color and contrast only and have nothing to do with DOF.

Consider these settings as a jump-off point for your own experimentation:

- FILM CAM mode
- 200 deg shutter angle
- Detail +5
- V. Detail +2
- Detail Coring +4
- Chroma +7
- Temp 0
- Master Ped -8
- A. Iris Level 0
- News Gamma - OFF
- Gamma - B-PRESS
- KNEE - MID
- Matrix - NORM
- Skin tone - OFF

Unfortunately none of the handheld cameras - either SD or HD - have good looking DOF characteristics and in fact are very close to the same DOF as the human eye. As mentioned above the only thing you can do is shoot in zoom out full telephoto, open the iris/aperture all the way (2.8 is usually the max at full zoom) and compensate exposure with the built-in ND's or drop ins for daylight and adding light for night or low-light situations.

This however is very limiting as it's just not physically possible to always zoom in on your subject and have enough subject-to-background separation to create shallow DOF, hence why there are so many 35mm lens adapters on the market.

Even the larger 2/3" inch cameras still don't have the ultra-shallow DOF characteristics of a film camera, which is why the Pro-35 adapter is used in those situations.
 
Robert,

Those scene file settings look like they should yield very nice results. I will give it a try.

I am not sure, but I think I remember something about depth of field from Barry Green saying that zooming does not really make the depth of field shallower but rather just moves the field of focus closer and farther in relation to the zoom. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I thought he said people would be better off putting more distance between the subject and it's background than worrying about putting distance between the camera and the subject and then zooming in.

As far as I know, using ND filters to help open the aperture, combined with seperating the subject from it's background help to get good results but that zooming in does not matter.

Am I mistaken?
 
I'm not familiar with the advice Barry has given, but as a general rule-of-thumb about the relation to DOF with focal length, the shorter the focal length the greater the DOF - the actual area that is in focus, whereas the reverse is true with longer focal lengths. For example, on an SLR still camera, a 14mm f/1.4 will have almost infinite DOF when compared to say an 85mm f/1.4 which will be far shallower at any given point of focus.

This same principle applies to any lens, prime or zoom regardless what it's mounted to. While there are some very limited methods in which you can get shallower DOF out of the built-in lens, the simple and unfortunate fact is that to fully achieve the "film-like" DOF we all love can only come from using lens adapters - of which just happens to be one of the most hotly debated and volatile subjects on any forum.
 
Thanks Robert,

It may very well be that Barry said something entirely different. I am a little hazy on what I may have read. Thanks for the info :)
 
Not quite what I said; what we're saying is that changing the zoom does not actually change the depth of field; DOF is technically (and underline that word, technically) the same at any focal length. Magnify a wide-angle shot until the background is as big as how a telephoto shot renders it, and you'll see that they're equivalently blurry.

But that is really just a silly distinction, because the fact is that a more-telephoto shot LOOKS like it has shallower DOF. And isn't that what you're after? The way a shot LOOKS?

I've beaten this one into the ground, but hey, here's new ground in this thread so let me beat it some more: this shot was taken with the same DVX at the same aperture, the only difference was the zoom setting; one side of the pic was taken at maximum wide angle, the other size was taken at maximum telephoto, and I moved the camera back to keep the subject the same size.
DOF-Combined.jpg

Does one side look like it has shallower DOF? Of course. That's the telephoto side. So whether it's "technically" the same or not is a matter for egghead debate. If you want the look, that's a matter of practicality, and to get that look you gotta zoom in as far as possible, and get the subject as far away from the background as you possibly can. If that means "cheating" or "staging" the shot, do it.
 
Oh I see now ...

by zooming in, we are essentially forcing a much smaller area of the background to fill the screen, so the blurriness increases.

The same principle as to why a mediocre picture can look sharp on a small TV and look terrible on a big screen HDTV.

I hope this thread helps to enlighten for those of us who may be a little confused about this.
 
Barry,

I just got your book today (rebate deal) and found info on this topic (DOF and zooming) in the book. The book is fantastic by the way.
 
John Froton said:
by zooming in, we are essentially forcing a much smaller area of the background to fill the screen, so the blurriness increases.

The same principle as to why a mediocre picture can look sharp on a small TV and look terrible on a big screen HDTV.
Click to expand...
E X A C T L Y !

Yes, that is exactly what's happening.
 
Robert Lane: Changes?

Robert Lane: Changes?

Robert,
I've been using settings you posted that were similar to this but gamma was HD Norm and this has higher V Detail and coring. Two different beasts or refinements of your earlier work?

- FILM CAM mode
- 200 deg shutter angle
- Detail +5
- V. Detail +2
- Detail Coring +4
- Chroma +7
- Temp 0
- Master Ped -8
- A. Iris Level 0
- News Gamma - OFF
- Gamma - B-PRESS
- KNEE - MID
- Matrix - NORM
- Skin tone - OFF
 
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