matrox mxo to hd ready crt

dlang

dlang

Well-known member
Just wanted to get some opinions.....I was wondering if I could take the matrox mxo and route it to my HD ready and get some what acurate color. I know the matrox unit will give you fairly accurate color on a ACD, but it this because is has software calibration tools, or is it something else? IF it gives you controll to calibrate could it be done on something other than the ACD? also my tv has hdmi, Would it affect the signal if I got a dvi to hdmi conversion cable? Thanks in advance
 
I just bought an MXO, and it's not the perfect answer. The calibration issue will remain difficult to get around. On an ACD, you can calibrate the screen with whatever you want to use, but the problem is how to calibrate it to broadcast..without a broadcast monitor to compare it to. There is really no way to be one hundred percent sure of where you stand without a real monitor. Other than that the MXO is not bad, but it is a bit buggy, and slows down the interaction time between applying CC filters, and beng able to visualize them. This is annoying, and somehow makes CC, not as 'real time' as it is without the MXO. If I had it to do again, I think I would buy a Kona card, and a Mac tower, and a broadcast monitor. Finally, the folks at Matrox are very nice..but so far not capable of offering solutions to tech. problems...In fact it's quite a funny place..the people are really, really nice..but disapointing. I have issues that they understand, but offer no viable solutions to. To be honest, I feel like I wasted my money!
 
Man that's a real bummer....As far as I know it's the only solution for us macbook pro guys. I have a g5 tower but it's only a single 1.8 vs my dual 2.16 macbook. I have a question....when you say you can calibrate the acd with whatever you want to use, can you give an example. I was under the impression that the mxo might have some calibration tools to get it to broadcast color accuracy. How did they calibrate it at NAMM exactly to match the Panasonic monitor? I'm still playing around with the idea of using my HDTV. Really to calibrate you need blue screen chroma, brightness, contrast, etc...doesn't mxo come with some software to simulate it, or something??? I'm a bit confused on this subject.
 
The MXO has software calibration tools...and presets for the ACD. So it will make the ACD a broadcast quality monitor. I attached the Matrox to my Sony HD monitor (Broadcast HD monitor) and I got the same image on the monitor that I get with my Kona LH. SO I know the box is sending the proper feed.

This is playing off my laptop.

NOw, I haven't had the chance to test it with the ACD, but I will. It doesn't work with my Dell 2045, as they have a different setup than my ACD. And If you are talking about setting up your consumer HD set....you can't. They aren't designed to show true broadcast colors. If they were, they'd cost a heck of a lot more.

stay tuned on www.lfhd.net
 
Shane, please try out your MXO...you would have helped me save some money! There is a screen profile included with the matrox..no calibration tool. Their profile is no good, and they currently have no solution! Below is a letter from their tech support to me.

"Regarding the calibration of the MXO regarding gamma & color. The profile that gets installed is not the best reference and you will have to recalibrate it using the colorsync utility or a third party like Eye-one, but the MXO does output broadcast quality. Presently we are working a workflow for users on how to properly setup their LCD, and speaking with one of the project managers there is thought about creating an app like much like DVrack (this is not to be told to the public). If you have any other questions please don’t hesitate to ask."

If you read between the ridiculous lines of this note to me, it clearly says don't use their profile, because it's no good! And that they are developing something to make their product work...but I should keep it a secret'.

What I want to know is, why are they selling a product if their software is not working properly? They know this is an issue. Honestly if you could calibrate your
ACD properly, there is relatively little advantage to having the Matrox.
 
I am not sure what calibration tool to get to adjust the ACD, but I'll look into it.

As for the NOT BROADCAST QUALITY comment...I find that odd. How old is this e-mail? Because they not only claim that the MXO and ACD show broadcast colors, they have proven it not only to me, but several others as well. I still want to compare it to my HD CRT (as I saw it next to an HD LCD color correction monitor), but I did see a comparison and it matched perfectly.

It is working properly...several people are using it successfully.
 
shane, i keep thinking you are either working for them, or they gave one to you for free. Anyway, their mail to me said it 'was broadcast' not 'wasn't'..read again. But...and I must say it again..read what they are saying..they are saying you need to calibrate it, and their included profile is no good. They are admitting it's a problem, and they have no solution. THAT'S not just a problem...IT's THE BIG PROBLEM!
 
I am not working for them. I am, however, reviewing a unit for the Creative Cow for them. I worked at the CalDigit booth at MacWorld and Wayne, the Matrox product manager, was working in our booth demoing the MXO. Before I met him, I was very skeptical. But then he showed me the unit, how it worked, and compared the image on the ACD to that of a $6000 Panasonic HD LCD color correction monitor. I was VERY impressed. I asked if I could demo the unit and compare the ACD with my HD CRT monitor (PVM-14L5). They agreed...so I have a REVIEW unit. Thus far it looks great...the image on my CRT from the Kona LH I have and the MXO match perfectly. I have yet to be able to test it with the ACD, but that will happen soon. I do know that a good friend of mine has tested it (Jerry Hofmann...google him if you must) and he agrees that it makes an ACD a broadcast monitor.

I am sorry, I did misread the letter. Eyestrain from lookng at monitors all day. pardon me. I'll ask about their profile as I know several people within Matrox now.

But no, I do not have one that they gave me. I have a Kona LH as my capture card. But if something doesn't work, whether it was given to me for free or not, I wouldn't say it worked. What would I have to gain? If it doesn't work for me, why would I claim it did? Reputation is everything, it is how I get work. I wouldn't tarnish it over a piece of equipment. If it didn't work, I'd say so.
 
Great Shane..You are friends with them.but if I had a broadcast monitor at home, I could make it look like my ACD SCREEN too. it's easy to match the screen...but the performance factor is the problem, and not having the screen, nor the possibility to calibrate an ACD screen to broadcast specs..make it much less workable as a solution. Better to skip it, and spend the money on a Kona card and a real screen.
 
To make a point, how do I know my HD CRT is calibrated properly? It isn't right out of the box, I have to make adjustments to it. And I don't have anything to compare it to, so...how do I do it?

Well, it helps that I have a BLUE ONLY setting, so that I can fine tune it, but other than that, I do it by eye...using my experience as an online editor. But if I didn't trust my eye, I'd bring in a professional with calibration equipment and have him do it....which I have. SO...I'd probably have to do the same thing with the ACD...adjust by hand and using my eye, or bring in a professional with experience with adjusting that monitor.

But...I am not forcing you to use the Matrox. Get what you want, just know that the Kona will not interface with the ACD, you'll need to buy an HD monitor, and they are PRICEY. If you can afford it. Great. The MXO is billed as an INEXPENSIVE monitoring solution. Will it compare to the $35,000 Sony CRT? I doubt it. My 14L5 doesn't match it precisely either, but it is close. Close enough...because by the time the show gets to all the TVs in peoples homes it won't look ANYTHING like what I see.
 
I'm not sure what you are trying to say Shane? I shoot for broadcast TV all of the time. The monitors I use are not 35,000$ systems, but much, much more pricey. I'm talkng about a home set up that takes in to account that each system applcation also adjusts for the screen it's projecting to.

The Matrox MXO comes with a display profile, that loads into the apple system as if it is the profile to use for the monitor. If you use the color sync system, and then look at color bars, you will see that the bars are really far off. If you use the matrox, supplied profile, you will be light years away from that. There is no benchmark, or system to help you get to at least a nuetral territory. You would think they wouldn't even bother to include their profile if they knew it is no good.

Yes, if you could bring a monitor home, it would help. But since it's meant to be a low cost tool, and meant to be used in exactly the way I have described, it's a shame that they cannot supply a profiling tool that works. Or at least give detailed instructions on how to do it. They simply avoid the issue.

BUT SHANE....YOU CAN BE of some use, now that I have dumped so much energy into this thing. Since you seem to know these guys, why don't you ask them to join in with some tips on how to calibrate an ACD? Many users on this forum will be very happy. I am fed up with spending hours on hold, and waiting for them to get back to me with ambiguous information.
 
I've been using the MXO with 720 footage going out to a calibarted NTSC monitor for colour grading. Feel the results aren't too bad at all. Though do feel the MXO is rather buggy (constantly having to F12), but the colours are turning out. Couldn't calibrate my Dell 2405 though. Sure would appreciate a firmware upgrade to smooth out the bugs. Also, agree the Matrox people are really nice, but not sure if they actually have the answers yet. They did just release a firmware upgrade, but that didn't solve the bugs yet.
 
They recommend the eye-one 2 from gretagmacbeth. And they said that my Dell 2405 should work. The will be looking at it in their lab. So I guess I am off to get that and see if I can calibrate my Dell.

Make sure you have the most recent drivers.
 
I've been using the MXO with HVX footage for commercial work for about four months and the results have been very good. Footage that I have color-corrected using the 23" ACD and the MXO have gone to my post house and viewed on high-end systems and no further adjustment has been needed. I haven't compared the footage side by side on the MXO and a broadcast monitor, but from memory of what I saw in my office compared to what I see at the post house, everything is right on.

The profile that comes with the MXO is a generic profile. Every display is different. You need to calibrate YOUR monitor to be sure rather than use a generic profile. I use the eye-one 2 at 6500K and gamma 2.2 and have very reliable results.

By the way, if you are doing color correction for broadcast, the final word is always what the waveform and vector scopes say anyway. The monitor has to be accurate, but it isn't the final word.
 
Shane, I think the eye-one is worth it. I used to use the Apple software calibration and felt is was OK but depending on how tired I was on a given day, my final results would vary. It's a subjective method at best. I feel good about the color I am getting using the ACD / MXO / Eye-One combination.

After calibrating, I always hold a 47B Tri-Blue filter in front of the monitor to simulate a blue gun only setting and bars generated out of FinalCut look the way they should. Not exactly blue gun only but it's about all you can do if you are used to looking a bars.

I'm interested in hearing what your final opinion is if the MXO. I've read quite a bit from you on various forums and you really know your stuff.

Best -
Kevin
 
hmmmmm. I've been folllowing this post but really had no good input, but I do want to make a commnet. It's seems a little rediculous that you would have to spend an additional 220 on software that makes up for mxo's short falling. You are supposed to be able to calibrate using mxo? I hope they get on the ball quick. It seems like a great concept. I use DVrack religously and If they added something along those lines to compliment the hardware that would be amazing. It doesn't matter which monitor your using with dvrack, you can calibrate accurately. Why some company hasn't picked up on this technology for post monitoring is beyond me. I'm anxious to hear your review Shane, thanks for taking the time to do it.
 
I agree to a point. The calibration situation needs a better solution.

When you calibrate within DVRack your calibration applies only to that application. (I'm guessing here as I don't own it) The MXO can be used in any application that is Quicktime compliant, Like Motion, Shake, Final Cut, Adobe After Effects, etc. so the calibration has to apply at a system level. That is why you calibrate using the software tools built into OS X. They don't cost additional, they are just part of the color management system and they work quite well.

I did spend the additional money on the Eye-One hardware calibrator to eliminate any subjective errors that humans make when making visual color judgements. I think it is worth it but it isn't required to get good resuts with the MXO.
 
What do you mean "it is not required"? Of course it's required! CC is about getting perfect color. You know when you play out directly from FCP to a ACD in cinema mode, you get alright color without the MXO. In fact if your monitor was set up well, it almost looks identical...so if you were not concerned about that 'extra' difference why would use make your life difficult with a buggy program like they've got? The point is not getting close to, but a desire to have accurate broadcast monitoring. Or at least something that brings you into a professional ballpark. 'I was hoping a thousand dollar step up from FCP, would be more than a slightly perceptable difference.'

And I want to add another thought here. I also bought a colorvision spyderpro, which set me back 300bucks. And I thought it was helpful but not perfect either. I read, on these forums, that a Pantone Huey would do the same job, but at one third the cost. So I gave back the colorvision, and got the Huey. Honestly the Huey is a piece of crap. It does a lousy job of both calibrating a macbookpro, and an ACD. I'm really wondering if the eyeone is any better than these other two. Have you done some comparisons? I'm ready to go buy that if it will bring me the last step closer. As far as the Huey is concerned, you are really fooling yourself if you think the color is accurate. I highly recomend not Buying the Huey.
 
What I meant by "not required" is it is not required. There are other ways to create a profile in OS X.

The difference between the image you get out of FinalCut with and without the MXO is more than accurate color. FinalCut uses YUV broadcast color space. Computer monitors use RGB. The MXO takes the YUV information and uses the color profile created for your monitor and converts it to RGB to display accurately on the ACD. Also, you are getting pixel-for-pixel display of your footage up to 1080 HD so you can make an accurate judgemant as to noise and compression artifacts. These things are also important in color grading because pushing the levels in your image can reveal or accentuate noise and artifacts that you may not be seeing just using the preview out if FinalCut without the MXO.

You also get frame-accurate output to a deck with audio sync.

The MXO is offered as a economical alternative to a broadcast monitor setup.

The MXO is almost $1000. The Gretag Eye-One 2 is about $250. Use the Apple 23" Cinema Display or other good display you likely already have.

A Panasonic 17" Broadcast LCD monitor is $3400. The card to drive a broadcast monitor in HD starts around $800. And you are still only getting 720p. Although you are getting alot of other functionality as well.

Welcome to the party. This isn't a cheap business. If you are dead critical of your footage, you will have to buck up for the high-end stuff. If you can accept 95 percent accurate than the MXO can save you some cash. Most people - even post production professionals - can't perceive the additional 5 percent difference.
 
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