FS-100 Firmware Upgrade

Hi,

Just to understand better, i'm a day away from making my purchase of 2x8gb cards and a p2 store, or would it make more sense to skip all that and buy a firestore? Does the firmware upgrade make the firestore completely equivalent to shooting on cards? Advantages - Disadvantages?

comments asap appreciated..
 
And more if you use FCP so you don;t have to convert to quicktime files, they already will be...just not spanned unfortunately.
 
thanks a mill for the quick reply BenB.

So i am to assume there will be no problem shooting variable frame rates at 720pN or any other format. How about workflow, got Macbook Pro and FC 5.1.2, any problems there? And finally, whats the best way to be hooked up when shooting handheld? The under-camera holder seems a wee awkward..

stephen.
 
nudge said:
Hi,

Just to understand better, i'm a day away from making my purchase of 2x8gb cards and a p2 store, or would it make more sense to skip all that and buy a firestore? Does the firmware upgrade make the firestore completely equivalent to shooting on cards? Advantages - Disadvantages?

comments asap appreciated..
Click to expand...

No, I wouldn't say it makes it completely equivalent to shooting on cards. Maybe from the technical point of shooting 24pn and now saving space on the firestore it does, but there are times when having the camera tethered to another device is just not practical and sometimes impossible.
For instance I just shot almost an hours worth of footage while on a 2 hour helicopter ride. Could it be done with a firestore? Possibly, but I certainly wouldn't want to have a firewire cable attached to the camera, connected to an FS100 while hanging out the side of a helicopter.
I also shot some underwater footage to P2 cards which would be impossible with the FS100. You will have to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages yourself for your own shooting situations and see what would work best. That's the beauty of all these possibilities.
 
FS-100 has always been able to do variable frame rates. It works just like a P2 card would for this.

A combination of P2 cards and the FS-100 is a great combination. You can use the P2 cards as back up for the FS-100, as you can record to both at the same time, swaping out P2 cards while shooting, getting the whole shot on the FS-100. I do this, as I'm doing a doc where I'm getting interviews with isolated folks who have first hand accounts of Louisiana history no one else has. Since it's so valuable, and I only get one shot at it, on the occations they allow us to move around during the interviews (which is rare), I like to run the P2 cards as a redundant system, just in case.

With the new FS-100 3.0 firmware, you set the HVX to regular mode, not Native. You set the FS-100 to P2 Native or QuickTime Native. See, Panasonic decided for some strange reason to not allow Native modes to go down the Firewire port (nor to allow HD playback via Firewire to the other outputs). So what the FS-100 does, is takes you regular non-Native mode stream from the HVX, and strips out the extra frames on the fly.

BUT that does not mean you can get Native frame rates the HVX doesn't do. The FS-100 3.0 will only do Native frame rates that the HVX can do.

"Spanned" means this: When you record to FAT32, there are file size limits. Thus the FS-100 cuts everything up into 2 minute 19 second clips. Or something close to that duration. In FCP, when you import, FCP can "span" the smaller individual clips into one large clip.

Say I record a 20 minute interview letting the HVX record non-stop. I'll end up with a ton of 2 minute something second clips. In the meta-data of those clips is information that shows they were all part of the same recording session. FCP is able to read that data and connect all these small clips into one long 20 minute clip like I'd get if I was using tape.

Same applies to P2 cards.

FS-100 3.0 can record QuickTime files, but won't span them. So in my 20 minute interview shot above, I'd have a bunch of small QT clips. In my NLE, I can place them all back to back and they'd work. But it's a bunch of smaller clips, not one long one.
 
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nudge said:
thanks a mill for the quick reply BenB.

So i am to assume there will be no problem shooting variable frame rates at 720pN or any other format. How about workflow, got Macbook Pro and FC 5.1.2, any problems there? And finally, whats the best way to be hooked up when shooting handheld? The under-camera holder seems a wee awkward..

stephen.
Click to expand...

You will not be able to shoot variable frame rates in 24PN mode to the FS100. The camera does not pass ANY signal over firewire in the PN modes. You have to set the camera to a 24p mode, which is sending the signal out in a 60fps stream and flagging the 24 frames, then the FS100 will discard the redundant frames and only record the 24 flagged frames.
 
There are things the FS-100 cannot do that the cards can. Selecting clips or deleting clips by thumbnails, for example. Or seeing your footage played back on an HD monitor. Those are fundamental limitations of the way the FS-100 works combined with the HVX's capabilities. You can play a clip back in HD on the HVX's cards and see it in HD on the monitor, but it's incapable of taking a firewire input signal and displaying that out its HD component outputs.

So no, the FS-100 is not exactly equivalent to the cards. But the new 3.0 gets it closer.
 
Thanks for all the input everyone. Few more issues if you can fill me in.

1. So from what i understood, it would not be possible to shoot variable frame rates on both the p2 cards and the FS-100, as the camera will have to be set on a non-native mode while the firestore will be "adjusting" the extra frames to whatever frame rate is assigned.

2. Another thing, if for example i want to overcrank at 50fps (I'm in a PAL country - Cyprus for the matter) and shoot on a non native 25p, the camera will be sending 50fps over firewire and will thus be keeping all 50, simulating 25pN 50fps? - does this make sense?

3. Is it possible to review the footage in its intended state assuming the above, ie. in slo-mo, from the firestore?

4. Would it be wise as a workflow to first backup the mxf files and then let FCP convert to QT to "span" the clips? i understand that once this is done i have no way back recovering the mxf files.

5. And finally, what would be the best way to provide my client the footage so he's not left with lots of small clips? Import into FC, span and then export in which format with no quality loss?

Thats it. no more questions..

Thanks again.
 
Hi, I would also like a specific clarification. At 720P can I shoot at 32fps, 36fps, 48fps, 60fps with FS-100 V.3 as I would with the P2 card at 720PN? or can I only do 24fps? And if I can shoot high speed, would I be able to watch the results in slow mo on the LCD monitor as I play back the fs-100, as I would with the P2 card?
Thanks.
 
PAL land guy seeking for advice

PAL land guy seeking for advice

Hi, I'm wondering what to buy (fs-100, p2 card or wait for the cineporter). Which of these are best if you are a PAL land guy? I'm leaning more towards a fs-100 or a cineporter due to the recording times. But will the Pal formats work and are they supported by fcp 5.1.2?
thanks
 
You STILL CAN do variable framerates with the FS-100, discussed in previous threads. This thread is going to get crazy for the people who have not used a firestore AHH! Has anyone downloaded the new firmware yet? And used it? I have a wedding to do saturday and would love to upgrade mine for the extended record time (I previously shot 720p for the wedding, and dv tape for the reception). thanks
 
Feb 5, my FS-100 video guide goes on sale, covers v.3.0!

I've been a beta tester of the new firmware version. It's awesome. Recording in P2 Native is so cool. Just remember that you set the HVX for normal mode, NOT Native, as in that mode nothing gets sent to the Firewire port. Set the HVX for the format you want. Set the FS-100 to P2 Native recording mode. Also remember that you only can do Native formats on the FS-100 that you can do on the HVX.


2+ hours of recording time, not too shabby.

The Cineporter will have some features the FS-100 won't. The FS-100 has features that the Cineporter and P2 cards alone don't. You have to weigh them out.

Personally, I needed long recording times six months ago. So it was the FS-100, or not use the HVX200. It's just a matter of what your specific needs are.

And yes, the FS-100 has ALWAYS been able to do variable frame rate. In version 3.0 you simply can't do them as Native. You simply have to do them in the non-native version as you did before the upgrade.
 
Thanks BenB, I'll be shooting a wedding at a ski resort, now with 100+ extra minutes I'll be shootin some boarders and skiers too! :2vrolijk_08:
 
we're probably getting off topic here, but in terms of the QT files not spanning...

can P2 log, or hd log assemble them so they do span? Is there another way?



Also, has anyone used the firestore for DVCPro 50?

Can these be QT files?

Do they span?

How much rec time can you get on the firestore in that format?

What frame rates can you use?

If so, what's the difference in rec time?
 
Clip spanning works when importing P2 data into FCP. Not sure what other NLEs do clips spanning. It's normally a function of the NLE. But if FS-100 users ask Focus nicely, they may add it in the future. P2 Log and such does no clip spanning.

The FS-100 is 100Gig hard drive, so whatever fits on that, depending on the format and mode you're recording with.

Here's the email they sent out:

It is our pleasure to inform you of the new version 3.0 software for the Focus Enhancements’ FS-100 Portable DTE Recorder. Version 3.0 adds native DVCPRO HD 720/24p, 25p and 30p recording capabilities, which more than doubles the record time on the FS-100. In addition, version 3.0 adds native QuickTime® DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD recording capabilities, which allows for direct import of clips into Apple’s Final Cut Pro nonlinear editing application.

When recording native frame rates, users can more than double the record time on the FS-100 from 100 minutes to over 200 minutes. By recording only the required frames, the bit rate for DVCPRO HD recordings drops to as low as 40Mb/s. While camcorders, such as the Panasonic AG-HVX200 P2 camera/recorder do not output a stream via FireWire when set to native frame modes (pN), the FS-100 processor is capable of achieving the same native support by only recording the required frames when set to regular 720/24p, 25p and 30p modes. QuickTime support also includes up to four channels of digital audio.


The 3.0 upgrade is available to existing FS-100 owners directly from on the Focus website for $39. All new FS-100 units manufactured after February 1st, 2007 will have version 3.0 loaded.
If you are a registered FS-100 owner you can bypass registering your product and purchase your FS-100 v3.0 upgrade directly.


https://www.plimus.com/jsp/buynow.jsp?contractId=1686190
 
Ben-
Thanks for all the information, it helps a bunch!

one last thing that nobody seems to be able to answer (and no email back from focus yet)... what about those of us that bought one today? Shouldn't Focus be providing us with free upgrades?
 
from the email i got:

"It is our pleasure to inform you of the new version 3.0 software for the Focus Enhancements’ FS-100 Portable DTE Recorder. Version 3.0 adds native DVCPRO HD 720/24p, 25p and 30p recording capabilities, which more than doubles the record time on the FS-100. In addition, version 3.0 adds native QuickTime® DVCPRO 50 and DVCPRO HD recording capabilities, which allows for direct import of clips into Apple’s Final Cut Pro nonlinear editing application.

When recording native frame rates, users can more than double the record time on the FS-100 from 100 minutes to over 200 minutes. By recording only the required frames, the bit rate for DVCPRO HD recordings drops to as low as 40Mb/s. While camcorders, such as the Panasonic AG-HVX200 P2 camera/recorder do not output a stream via FireWire when set to native frame modes (pN), the FS-100 processor is capable of achieving the same native support by only recording the required frames when set to regular 720/24p, 25p and 30p modes. QuickTime support also includes up to four channels of digital audio."

I was waiting for this to finally get serious about getting a FS. I have P2 cards, but the long recording times makes it worth the money.

Senomar: From the looks of the email you can get QT files for DVCPRO 50. You can get 2+ hours in HD now so you should be able to get about the same if not a little less. You can only use the native frame rates the HVX has which is 24PN and 30PN. But you can still undercrank and overcrank just like a P2 but since the Firestore is taking out the redundant frames but needs a 60P stream coming out the firewire. So you set the HVX to 24P or 30P, set your VFR to whatever. Voila! The firestore takes out the redundant frames and makes it a 24 or 30 frame only file, in your choice of .mxf or quicktime files. The difference in recording times is significant becuz the firestore is stripping the redundant files upon ingest, giving you a native file requiring less space than a 60 frame file. Previously you would have to strip the redundant frames in your NLE of choice.

I myself am a PC guy, but I like the fact that you can also output quicktime files. I have colleagues that use Macs for editing so being able to shoot specifically for ingest into FCP is a good plus. Arrghhh!!! Should i wait for the cineporter or get the FS now? I don't need to shoot in HD for extended periods of time right now, and I already have 3 P2 cards for commercial situations. But I would like to shoot in DVCPRO50 for events and weddings as the codec is more suitable for DVDs than regular DV.
 
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