wait until NAB2007 before you buy !!!!

[harddrive]

Nope, I'm asking for AVC-HD (not AVC-Intra) and recording to standard cheap SD cards, not P2 cards. That's the camera that I think would be killer.

I fully agree. I'd only add that I hope they do something about the form factor - either such a camera is substantially lighter than the HVX200, or it's shoulder mount.

AVC-HD at 8 megabits can deliver image quality about comparable to HDV at 25 megabits, ........

Is that not a bit low? I'd heard AVC could deliver the same quality at about half the bitrate (all other parameters equal), so wouldn't it be more likely to be around 12Mbs - maybe higher with the early codec implementations?

And if you crank it up to maximum bitrate (24 megabits) it should look substantially better than HDV, and you'll still get 16 minutes on that card. It's tapeless and would have a similar workflow to the HVX/P2, but AVC-HD isn't DVCPRO-HD so it'd still be a rung lower on the ladder.

Quality wise I think that would equate to about 40-45Mbs of MPEG2, which should be a rung above DVCPro-HD on the quality ladder - assuming the source can deliver. Where it will be a rung below is in ease of editing etc - an inter frame system will always require more grunt than an intra frame one.

I suspect there may not be that much to choose between DVCPro-HD (100Mbs), AVC-Intra (50Mbs) and AVC-HD (24Mbs) in terms of picture quality. The trade off is more likely to be save data rate but require much more processing power. With AVC-HD more difficult to edit natively than the other two.

 

[filmguy123]

Sorry to have to ask, but what is "RED" that everyone is talking about? Will this be a prosumer camera?

I am in the process of shopping for new equipment. My old camera is about dead, and I plan on shooting a film this summer. I was wondering; if Panasonic were to announce an updated HVX200a model at NAB in April, would it in fact be another 6-8 months before release like someone mentioned?

I am torn, because I don't need the camera until June (although I would like to have some time before that, ideally, to become familiar with it). I see that Panasonic has an offer for a free 8gb P2 card in purchased before March 31st.

But I also read someone say that you would have to be desperate to purchase right now. I don't need a camera until June; would it be foolish to purchase before NAB, or is it worth waiting and missing out on the free 8gb P2 card? (again, if I did wait for NAB, a camera released 6-8 months after that would be too long to wait).

And again... what is "RED"?


Thanks for the info guys.

 

[puredrifting]

Hi filmguy123:

Go back to the main board listing here and scroll down to the Red Forums and all will be revealed. Have you been sleeping under a rock? ;-) It's been the hottest topic of discussion here since the HVX premiered a year ago.

Dan

 

[filmguy123]

Hi filmguy123:

Go back to the main board listing here and scroll down to the Red Forums and all will be revealed. Have you been sleeping under a rock? ;-) It's been the hottest topic of discussion here since the HVX premiered a year ago.

Dan

Hey thanks, I'll check that out. I just registered at the forums here today.

 

[Ralph Oshiro]

its OK. RED on order...for now HVX makes me change....
will sell cheap when mr. RED comes home.

Yup . . . RED. Game over.

 

[filmguy123]

I am in the process of shopping for new equipment. My old camera is about dead, and I plan on shooting a film this summer. I was wondering; if Panasonic were to announce an updated HVX200a model at NAB in April, would it in fact be another 6-8 months before release like someone mentioned?

I am torn, because I don't need the camera until June (although I would like to have some time before that, ideally, to become familiar with it). I see that Panasonic has an offer for a free 8gb P2 card in purchased before March 31st.

But I also read someone say that you would have to be desperate to purchase right now. I don't need a camera until June; would it be foolish to purchase before NAB, or is it worth waiting and missing out on the free 8gb P2 card? (again, if I did wait for NAB, a camera released 6-8 months after that would be too long to wait).


Thanks for the info guys.

just a bump on this question; I would be very interested to hear thoughts on this?

 

[gunleik]

Yup . . . RED. Game over.

HM...

I have one on order, but still think about a 2nd HVX for crash kits.

A shouldermounted HVX with just a Nikon or Canon lens-mount with the elctronics to controll the lens (and: no stock lens!!!), a better FW plug - hopefully 6-pin, THAT would stir things up.

Just me

Gunleik

 

[Tzedekh]

HM...

I have one on order, but still think about a 2nd HVX for crash kits.

A shouldermounted HVX with just a Nikon or Canon lens-mount with the elctronics to controll the lens (and: no stock lens!!!), a better FW plug - hopefully 6-pin, THAT would stir things up.

Just me

Gunleik

To that I'd add (1) higher-res, next-gen third-inch imagers (CMOS?), (2) onboard disk controller so that cheap commodity hard disks could be used , (3) HDMI 1.3a (for the masochists who need 4:4:4), and (4) AVC-Intra up to 100 Mbps with variable frame rate. I would think having a removable lens would make mounting some 35-mm adapters (e.g., P+S Technik Mini35) a little easier.

 

[Avenger007]

Word around here was that the Varicam was going to get a "cinema body" treatment like the upcoming cinealta models. IE shaped more like a film body than ENG. I sure hope so as im tired of fussing with the wierd news feel and setup of the varicam (as far as the body and lens configuration is concerned)

 

[John Trent]

Nope, I'm asking for AVC-HD (not AVC-Intra) and recording to standard cheap SD cards, not P2 cards. That's the camera that I think would be killer. AVC-HD at 8 megabits can deliver image quality about comparable to HDV at 25 megabits, so you could store a good amount of HDV-caliber footage (about an hour on a 4GB SD card). And if you crank it up to maximum bitrate (24 megabits) it should look substantially better than HDV, and you'll still get 16 minutes on that card. It's tapeless and would have a similar workflow to the HVX/P2, but AVC-HD isn't DVCPRO-HD so it'd still be a rung lower on the ladder.

Barry, I REALLY REALLY hope they do this. I was planing on buying the DVX because I love it's "look" but I recently saw SD DV on an HDTV, DV run thru Instant HD, and an up-convert DVD player. What can I say? I want Hi-Def. I think the HVX is the top dog in this price range but the P2 cards are too expensive and time limited for me. So, my current choices are: buy an HDV camera with hi- res and a look I don't like, or buy a DV cam with a look I love and resolution that won't cut it. Either way, I'm not happy, so I just keep shooting with my old cam.

I hope the Canon A1 has Panasonic thinking about the camera your talking about, but I just don't think so. I feel they need something to fill their gap for low-cost HD but if it was coming wouldn't we already know. Hasn't Panasonic already told us what they'll show at NAB? I don't remember ANY surprises last year.

 

[Barry_Green]

NAB is a broadcaster convention. The camera I'm hoping for may or may not even be appropriate for NAB. I don't know if AVC-HD is going to hold that much attention for broadcasters; it may or may not. It's not always about surprises; people go to NAB to see the gear, so frequently items will be "leaked" so that people know to put a certain booth on their "must see" list. But keep in mind that the XHA1 wasn't launched at NAB, the Sony V1 wasn't launched at NAB, so if Panasonic were to make my proposed "HVX100", I don't know that it would have anything to do with NAB.

I would suspect a big focus of Panasonic's booth this year is gonna be all about broadcast (it is, after all a "broadcasters" convention). We know they've got two or three big shoulder-mount cams coming, and they just landed a deal to be the exclusive supplier for all Fox owned/operated stations, and overseas they have had similar success, so last year was all about the HVX, this year is probably all about the HPX.

On the other hand, the DVX and HVX both got their "first unveilings" at NAB, so maybe that would be where they'd introduce a new AVC-HD cam.

 

[ripupthehwy]

I hope the Canon A1 has Panasonic thinking about the camera your talking about, but I just don't think so. I feel they need something to fill their gap for low-cost HD

Well I could see that IF panasonic updated the HVX that better ccd's or cmos chips would be the natural progression, along with some enhancing features, but why abandon the P2?. Why should they scale down their recording format to the inferior HVX format (or something similar to it)? The reason for buying HVX for me is that I can have a broadcast HD format for low cost. My clients don't want to hear that I found a cheaper format that looks "almost as good as..." Why would you want to press Panasonic for a lower quality format for less money? I find it amusing that so many prosumer people whine about companies not making Broadcast gear at prosumer prices. I would imagine that Panasonic would say that if u want a cheaper format, then go patronize their sister company JVC. They have simply chosen not to get into the HDV type formats. I don't think Panasonic is going to make a format to compete with their P2/DVCProHD format. Maybe they are trying to get their customers to stay with higher end quality for close to same price as the HDV stuff. (Of course you can call me wrong when they do just the opposite. lol )

ripupthehwy

 

[TimurCivan]

Dont worry about Codecs so much guys....

I am completely in love with my HVX with its tiny but awesome 8 gig card........ ( plus a friend is buying a RED, and he said i could use it..... :thumbsup: ) so i have no worries.......

 

[David Saraceno]

just a bump on this question; I would be very interested to hear thoughts on this?

Not certain what to say other than many here have indicated that there is no expected or updated version of the HVX200 anticipated for NAB.

The better question is "what are you waiting for?"

Get the card and cam and learn to use it.

Is there something it doesn't do that you need? Is there another cam out there that does?

 

[harddrive]

I don't know if AVC-HD is going to hold that much attention for broadcasters; it may or may not.

Well, in the UK, 2/3" cameras hold sway with the broadcasters for the majority of their work, but there is a lot of use of 1/3" cameras as "second unit" etc, and at the moment that normally means the Z1 over here.

IF a broadcaster did decide to commit to Panasonic, 2/3" cameras, AVC-Intra etc the odds are that there would still be a demand for a small camera for the same work - in-car, unobtrusive shoots etc - and here a 1/3" AVC-HD model with SD cards would have a lot of merit.

 

[dglasgal]

seems to be some confusion in all the new models coming out, what's the difference between the HVX500 and the HPX500? It's the shoulder mount version of the HVX200, right? Whatever happened to the cineporter anyway?

 

[RobS]

Barry - can you shed any light on the level of detail Panasonic revealed at NAB in previous years and how long it was until those cameras were generally available. I don't mean to suggest that we can expect an DVX/HVX announcement this year, but for those who are waiting to see if there's something better coming (a new camera, a better P2 rebate), it might be helpful to consider the likely timeline until we could purchase.

I imagine rebates are immediate. Camera upgrades...what? 6 months?

 

[Barry_Green]

seems to be some confusion in all the new models coming out, what's the difference between the HVX500 and the HPX500? It's the shoulder mount version of the HVX200, right? Whatever happened to the cineporter anyway?

There is no HVX500, that's a mistaken model number. The cam is actually HPX500.

CinePorter says they'll be out in Summer 2007, so maybe as soon as three months or as long as 9 months; we'll know more as the date draws near. But they did announce some new specs (including removable/interchangeable hard disks!)

 

[Barry_Green]

Barry - can you shed any light on the level of detail Panasonic revealed at NAB in previous years and how long it was until those cameras were generally available.

Only ones I paid attention to were the DVX and HVX. In both cases they were shown as non-functioning mockups at NAB, and delivered that same year. DVX was on the market mid-October, HVX at the very end of December.

So if something new is shown, expect a six- to 8-month wait before it's commercially available.

I imagine rebates are immediate. Camera upgrades...what? 6 months?

Well, the DVX100A update was an immediate overnight thing; nobody knew it was coming until one day they popped up and said "surprise -- the 100 is discontinued and now it's the 100A." But with the 100B, Jan made mention of it months and months before it came out. So there's no one single precedent.

Again though, I don't expect to see any update to the HVX any time soon, because they have the ability to update it by downloadable firmware. The main upgrades I'd expect to see are bigger/cheaper P2 cards, and new features integrated by firmware.

 

[TimurCivan]

i have a question barry, what exactly are the kinds ofthings that can be updated by firmware? you say the LCD flip function is not a Firmware updateable thing. but for example what is? im just curious.