HOT! VIDEOPLUS overhelmed by P2 8Gig orders!! Asking them a 16Gig special price.

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Hello I`m from Germany and i think it`s a great idea Jennyparis!

I would also like to order cards making a groupbuy - this is a normal practice and i have to say - it`s our right as customers.
So if there is a chance to enlarge our power as customers, why should`nt we do this?

I`ll be on the list!
 
Spec-Comm said:
Jenny,

This site is sponsored and endorsed by Panasonic and the dealers you see in the banners. I think you need to rethink the "revolution" you are trying to start and at least not do it on this board. This group has been working very hard to develop relationships with Panasonic and dealers/servicers who spend a lot of valuable time to help this group. You will hurt those relationships by even trying to do what you are doing. There is a lot of good will that is already being eroded.
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With all due respect David, your company is in this business to make money.

How is "good will" being eroded when users try to find the best price to purchase an essential and expensive item?

The "valuable time" spent here is called "marketing."
 
Ok, as a DVXuser moderator, I'm temporarily locking down this thread, so we can review this situation and decide how to proceed. As a clarification, DVXUser receives no sponsorship support from Panasonic other than a few goodies previously donated to DVXFest. We are completely independent. However, we've become somewhat concerned with this thread due to large amount of money and users potentially involved. Jarred and the mods will review this and get back to everyone. Jennyparis, please hold off on this discussion for now. Thanks.
 
good call Barry. We are not sponsored by Panasonic. Advertisers help offset some of my out of pocket expenses, but we in no way are influenced by their desicions. Spec-comm has been with us for awhile as an advertiser and understand that, and thats what makes them so great.

Power to the people... Jenny your idea isn't completely out of line, but its a little malformed. To directly approach Panasonic as a buying group, you need to make sure you understand the responsibilities associated with doing so. And Panasonic Professional isnt about to sidetrack their very close relationship with there hand picked dealer network to undercut everyone.

Trust me, i thought about doing so way back in the day of making DVXuser its own direct "dealer" and i discovered way too many issues with doing so in the end.

I would recommend taking Andrew's offer of working a group deal together, as well as asking a few other dealers like Abel etc to do some comparative pricing, and work together with people that purchasing for a living.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Ok, thread is unlocked now. Just run the final deal by us before any money changes hands. We're just trying to protect our users. And let's all try to chill a little.
 
I just finished 2 PMs to Jarred and Barry about this project.

We have an ongoing discussion to fullfill DVXusers spirit, and try to make things seriously organized.
Will be happy to participate to this group project, if all aspects are validated by DVXusers management.

PS: PPGUG thread is locked, does I have to discard this idea? Or "pending review" ?
 
I believe you are ok to go forward Jenny. Just follow the directions laid out in Barry_S' post above yours.

And look into Jarred's advice as well. It is sound advice. You are very ambitious, and I applaud you for that. Just plan it out well, and figure out what the best way is to increase your chances of a positive outcome.

Trying to contact Panasonic directly, as Jarred said, may prove to be "too" ambitious in the end, and fruitless. But, forming a groupbuy list and approaching authorized Panasonic dealers is something that won't involve so much red tape, inside knowledge, etc and may prove to be much more likely.

It would be as beneficial for the dealers as it would for the User's here you are trying to benefit. For them to sacrifice a little bit of profit per unit may be well worth it if they can move x amount of units that they wouldn't have otherwise, and have the potential for recurring purchases, etc.

Keep your big plans, and pursue them, but my suggestion would be to start small and build from there. Start where you can have a positive result. The more positive results you have, the more "weight" your idea and your group could begin to have. Crawl before you walk as they say.

I think trying to organize some of the users here into a group buy list and approaching some auth. dealers will be your best bet.

Best of luck to you,
Jason
 
Thank you Jason, I appreciate.
Believe me, between the structured group buy project and the Panasonic meeting project, they both go in the same direction. Feet on Earth.
Am familiar with dealing with these large organizations, the strength is more outside than you could believe.

Germanboy gave latest feedback from Pana Germany where the 550€ rebate is cancelled because the 16Gig is delayed (confirmed for April by Japan system5.co.jp) a main dealer.

This showed clearly the freedom of pricing Panasonic has, and this project got an even bigger motivation to react and organize properly ourself.
 
Jenny,

I don't know how much background you have in working with large, multinational manufacturers, but 100 or 200 or 300 end users isn't really going to have any big impact for them in terms of getting a direct purchase deal. And all the talk about cash purchases... really doesn't matter that much to major manufacturers or even dealers. With credit card transaction rates down around 1.5% for high volumes, and few of the people in the purchasing group likely to be getting 30 day terms to begin with, and in dealing with a one-time purchase, it really isn't a factor.

Panasonic has spent a great deal of time cultivating a relationship with its dealers, and several of the larger Panasonic dealers regularly post here (EVS and Spec-Comm come to mind immediately) and offer special deals to DVX users already.

Panasonic is very unlikely to be interested in dealing directly with a user group because it would take money out of the pockets of their dealers... and if Panasonic alienates even one large dealer by doing this sort of thing, the loss of sales from that one dealer will dwarf the value of even a 300 unit P2 card sale to an end-user group. Most savvy manufacturers are smart enough not to cut out their dealer channel and sell direct to end-users unless they are doing so at full retail price (more as a convenience to the customer than a true desire to make sales.)

I honestly think you would be much better solidifying the group of people and then getting a commitment for sale of a particular number of units of something (say, 100 - 8 gig P2 cards) and bidding the group purchasing power of that group to each of the Panasonic dealers that contribute here (and, for that matter, any other Panasonic dealer that wants to bid.)

I, for one, would be nervous about ANY individual collecting $1600 (2 cards) from 100 people and doing the buy... $160,000 is simply too much money with the possibility of a bunch of people getting scammed in one way or another.

And then, of course, if one person buys 100 cards and essentially "resells" (at no markup) those cards to the people in the group, all the people in the group are buying "grey market" product, because the warranty is from Panasonic to the first retail user, and as far as I know is not transferrable.

By getting a group purchase commitment that is then handled/fulfilled by a Panasonic dealer, the dealer could handle the transactions and fulfillment (not an insignificant amount of time and effort involved), the customers/group members are dealing with a trusted source, and Panasonic is warranting a product sold directly by an authorized dealer to an end user.

To protect the retailer from just having to lower his price to anyone reading the thread, the people in the group could each be given a special, individual code by email so the dealer could identify people who are part of the group and not have to give the price to anyone who reads the thread. Another option might be to have the dealer collect all the orders and give the special pricing only when he had the payment arrangements and specifics for the entire group, or make it a deal where the dealer collects all the orders, then does one large special purchase from Panasonic to fulfill the order. ( I could see a manufacturer making a special price concession to a dealer based on a single large purchase between the dealer and Panasonic, and perhaps that's how a special price could be passed on.)

Not trying to rain on your parades, but one who was at one time president of a fairly large community cooperative that did deals like this with manufacturers and wholesalers, I can tell you that I think this is probably a better way to proceed.

Plus, I like the idea of continuing to support the dealers that are frequent contributors here :)
 
I am with calchip on this one. The group buy sounds better although not without its own complications.

Would it make sense to do the following:
Gather a list with a cutoff of March 15 for 8GB P2 cards. If 16GB is due out in April it might be good timing to hit the dealers before the end of their quarter (if they care) and right before the 16GB cards make their 8GB inventory less valuable.

It may be that there will be a big lead time to fulfill an order of 100 cards as well. Folks on the list would need find out from the dealer about delivery time and shipping costs. They'd also need to know that if the group winds up with a dealer that collects sales tax for their state, that they would be paying a higher price than the out-of-state group members. Is there an opt-out in that case?

Gets complicated even with the less ambitious proposal by calchip.
 
Calchip,

you make assumptions of actions to be taken which does not reflect at all my vision.
You already explain what YOU THINK we could do, without ever asking the least question.
Your solution is SOOO SIMPLE, please put it in action, authoritative person here seem to agree with you, please tell us the price we could get from dealers who INVESTED here already.
You will get a price. dot. Just offer it to members. Why bother?

In the case it is not enough, or dealers cannot do a lot better (please re-read some recent dealers answers), we will conclude this EASY solution has not been conducted because non significative on price.

I don't see the problem in existing as a Prosumer Buyer Group.
I don't see the problem of making things known to Panasonic.
I don't see the problem of asking a question to Panasonic.

Would you invest beyond writing and arguing here? Taking a plane? Pushing a door? Asking for something eye to eye? I will do, if joined by a significant number of DVXuser members.

It won't be the first time I fly 26 000 Kms to push the door of a global IT company:
Some years ago, working for Apple France training division, I raised 1M$ worldwide from third-parties IT compapnies to setup a demonstration platform, with a single 4 pages in color Apple branded. I was invited to Cupertino street. I did this alone, with a vision.

Today, I distribute pedagogical DVD in more than 25 countries, sponsored by global medical companies, where I sollicit WW marketing Mgr directly.

Instead of pretending whether it will work or not, please just join the list, simply saying, "P2 price is okay for me" or "P2 pricing monopoly is unreasonable for us, we need to make it known".

There is no one against anyone, no end-users against dealers, no end-users against Panasonic.

It is better to structure this idea, to carry it in the right direction, to make it grow, and to TRY SOMETHING, instead of just TALKING about it.

Yes, it is true, just some hundreds could be critically few, but it is better than nothing, it is a start.

And it is so simple: Those who are happy with the current situation, just don't join us. This is respectable and democratic.

Those who share this idea and wish to support, and possibly take advantage of it, please let us know.

We have nothing to lose by attempting something.
 
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You're very right Jennyparis: Nothing to lose by trying.... but a lot to get if succeeding

That's how so many ideas started and not few of them are among the most powerful in the world. Look at the first Apple computer... or the two guys that created My-Video for no money and today they are billionaires.

If we didn't TRY all the time, where would we stand today? Physics ONLY proceeded by breaking the old and firm laws.... Neither scientific laws nor economical laws represent the real world. The question that makes you proceed is:

What if ... ?
 
Fellows,

European ones, American ones, it is crazy to read here conservative feedbacks, negative thoughts, established unmoveable market habits, not shaking the fruitful tree, not thinking of the many things which grow from a seed.

Lots of you confirm we have to setup this. Jarred and Barry has acknoledge the principle of trying something, so, a group buy thread for the discussion, a group buy thread just for the member listing are about to open.

All of you reading these posts, and potentially buying P2 today or tomorrow, please give us your feedback.
Again, It won't be a one shot opportunistic shoot, it is a buyer group with an identity, with a chart and goals, whose first and only for now is advocating for P2 price reduction in a monopolistic market situation (one P2, just one brand).
 
the only one that looses if this works (P2 purchase direct to user from panny) is the middle people, cause they don't make their mark up... this looks to me as a "virtual store" where users drop their money in a hat till the hat is full enough to place an order ar big as a dealer mut place, not a bad idea, and the only thing that Panny would worry about is having less help in the support department... stores often handle issues for them, lowering their cost... so I wonder, would we be able to offer a virtual cust. serv. dept? just rambling here... like the idea of shaving some money off the price, Panny could actually make MORE money if we bought direct... but it sounds like an awful lot of work Jenny...if you want to try this, then I am sure lots of people would do it... we'd just look at the details, make sure we can't get screwed and go for it... simply buying bread/croissants at the cheaper bakery

I got a vision of the future where there are no store, you simply place an order on your PDA and you get a status of demand fullfilment from the manufacturer, where the factory just lets you know what percentage of a full batch ha been pre-ordered, and the analisi of when they think the demand will be enough for the next batch of that product to be manufactured
 
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Middle people? you mean dealers? No, no, sales will ALWAYS flow through them.
A sort of special discount/coupon/"2for1" deal can always be possible, but the sale is through the channels.

It is distribution which rules who get what from who.

am currently writing a sort of framework/FAQ to make it clear, but lease don't make these kind of assumptions, for now we build up a list to see interest.
The group will acknowledge the right way to do.
Plans are to ask for a meeting at Pana Europe HQ (I got a name this morning) as soon as the group is big enough.

Won't turn into a discount mail order business! ha. ha. ha.

I welcome you on the member list, USLatinContent ! :-)
The more we are...
 
USLatinContent said:
this looks to me as a "virtual store" where users drop their money in a hat till the hat is full enough to place an order ar big as a dealer
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This is exactly what we wouldn't want to see happen. Of course you as the membership are free to do whatever you want, but we wouldn't want to see DVXUser used as a place where someone gets the members to send large amounts of money to some unknown, private individual. The potential for unpleasantness is just too high, and we certainly wouldn't want to encourage or facilitate such behavior.

We recommend that purchases be made through trusted authorized dealers. Use the power of the internet to grow a group, use that group bargaining power to negotiate a great deal, fine. But we would advise that you, as the membership, would be protecting yourself best by sending your money specifically and solely to that dealer, executing the purchase directly on your own behalf. Perhaps the group negotiates a great deal and the dealer agrees to extend a certain discount code to the group members?

Execute your group buy however you want, but everyone should clearly understand that DVXUser is not endorsing any plan whereby anyone sends their money to some unknown private individual, trusting that that individual will then buy something on their behalf.
 
The words of USLatinContent and the perspectives he draws are marks of his freedom of speech.

This does not reflect our current project of grouping together a User Buyer Group, aimed at getting a significant discount by establishing a contact with Panasonic.
No one here has projected or speculated the least money transfer to an individual.

Speculations about a possible dealers by-pass or a massive money transfer towards an individual are OUT OF SUBJECT.
 
oopsie... unless of course I am that individual! :tongue:

I am sorry, I have a fever and might have not realized what I was saying... DVXuser has worked to our advantage by creating a meeting place for users and developers, dealers and all of the other companies we depend on. It has helped to create the solutions we now enjoy and even shape the HVX to a great extent. I was stuck in a future Jetson's movie mind frame, and did not mean to insult the effort of the members of this forum.
 
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