Hylen Lens System

[Graeme_Nattress]

So, not only are you trying to do the tricky task of pointing a camera in the right direction, with the right focus etc., but you're trying to use a game controller to choreograph an intricate dance.

I don't think anyone here is doubting the benefits of RAW due to what you get to change your mind on in post. Now here's a lens system that is in my mind, anti-raw - it's like recording YUV v recording RAW. It burns in an effect that Stu says you can do in post. Now if it's an effect, like a tilt-shift that you can only do in camera, then in-camera is the right place to do it, but in my mind, post is the right place for most effects. You may think differently, and you might like to create visually on set, but that's a very different way of working. Could be fun though.

Graeme

 

[Y.Goh]

......Once such function is having some text (or shape or drawing, anything really) etched(?) onto the intra-system glass plugin. This can then be brought from out of focus to in focus using the controller and manipulated in other ways as well (rotation is one if I remember correctly from the demo I saw). The effect is like if you had writing on a clear glass in front of the camera which then became the focus, only you can keep the actual main image in focus at the same time which you can't normally do with a straight lens.....

Thanks for the post. So the texts/grpahics are etched, and it's not dynamic such as display system through the lens?

 

[Purple]

Hi Grame,

I agree that "burning in" an effect during production limits your options. But sometimes it's good to control both the performance and the effect while filming to better control the timing of both elements etc.

There could of course be a "best of both worlds" approach: overlays and selective focus control are added live over the raw digital data, and the original data plus the add-ons are saved to the same frame of film. If the R1 had an API to save any metadata to a film frame, this could be easily achieved. And if we could run little programs on the R1 to do these things in "live-post", it would be even cooler!

Cheers!

 

[visceralpsyche]

Thanks for the post. So the texts/grpahics are etched, and it's not dynamic such as display system through the lens?

Correct, it's a static image. I haven't used it myself, only seen it demoed live by Mr Hylen himself. Personally it's not something I'd use as I agree with Graeme that nearly everything these days is best done in post, but no doubt for some specific circumstances it'll save a bucketload of work and would be worth the hire cost.

 

[Homersapien]

I'm trying to think of a decent shot that you would want to use the Hylen system on to be honest, I don't think it looks that nice at all, infact I'm sure that done in post you could apply the effect alot nicer than some of the stills.

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

It doesn't look as natural and clean as using normal DoF and if it was so important to blur out everything in such a way I'm sure it'd be a nicer shot as a transition and would certainly lend itself better to being done in Post. Image 1 looks like it is an overlay, Image 2 looks amateurish because parts of her are outside the blur and much of the ground is inside the blur, the shot would look a whole lot more stylish if she was completely in focus and everything else in the image was at different levels of DoF to her - again something done far easier and better in post and Image 3 looks like nice use of DoF aside from half of her eye and eyelid is unessarily out of focus.

In terms of cost between using the system over post, the rental of the equipment and a professional that can use it and the time it takes to setup the shot I'm not even sure that it would be cheaper than just having it done in post.

 

[taubkin]

Honestly? There are people who pay for this?

 

[im.thatoneguy]

Hi,

I guess Gavin spent a week doing rotoscope on one complex scene that could have been done for free in camera, assuming the DoP had the guts!

Playing safe is not something I like to do.

Stephen

Bingo! Also it has the side effect of looking like ****. Without the extra data from behind the actor, and out of frame, you have to create the data or put up with artifacts like halos.

-Gavin

 

[Stephen Williams]

Bingo! Also it has the side effect of looking like ****. Without the extra data from behind the actor, and out of frame, you have to create the data or put up with artifacts like halos.

-Gavin

Hi Gavin,

Very pleased when a post guy understands why I want to shoot something for real!

Stephen

 

[Erik Olson]

I think there are many instances where the ability to achieve dynamic regional focus in-camera is preferable to rotoscoping or keying entirely your foreground subject to achieve the same effect.

Like the slant-focus systems from Panavision in the early 90s were, I think the Hylen system would have been a real boon to filmmakers before almost real-time 2k effects became a reality.

The Hylen is amazing, but maybe just a little late to the party.

e

 

[macgregor]

WIth all my respect for the people who developed the Hyleen system. They were 20 years late. Sorry. There is no point of using it.

ALso having the DVD demo reel at home, i remember seeing dust on the GG, the same as it would appear on any cheap 35mm adapter.

THe logo insertions is a stupid thing. Any cheap editing software will do much better jobs.

 

[im.thatoneguy]

Hi Gavin,

Very pleased when a post guy understands why I want to shoot something for real!

Stephen

Probably because I am one of the 'laziest' most impatient fx supervisor in history. I hate waiting and I hate wasting my time on things which I don't need to do. Projects are complex enough without having to fix everyone else's mistake. "Wow after 2 weeks of work we're almost back to... acceptable!"

'Can you make that actor... emote better?'
'Sure... but...'
Luckily this conversation hasn't taken place yet... but I'm sure it will.

I was almost driven mad on a project I directed for Boeing. They wanted everything to be CG... even though I could have shot the entire spot in a 1/100th the time for 1/10th the price if they had just loaned me one of their non-functioning dummies for a day. Best of all, it would have looked twice as good.

I love working on really exciting visual effects projects, but I'm always startled by how often it's the clients who are the driving force behind waste. Usually because of their inability to provide the necessary leg work, or else an inability to make critical decisions when they need to be made. Oh well it's their money.

Maybe Zemeckis is on the right track with his performance capture stuff... now that looks like fun. Either that or it'll end up being the worst of both worlds, I guess we'll see when beowulf comes out.

 

[Emanuel]

THe logo insertions is a stupid thing. Any cheap editing software will do much better jobs.

I agree. However, though different the RED shooter will have a helpful tool to couple to the RED ONE and play with. I guess there will be a lot of experimental moviemakers over there:

http://www.lensbabies.com/