Help With First Video Camera Purchasse

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Demetrius

New member
Hello, This is my first post here and i hope you guys will help me make this very crucial decision.

Im not much of a video camera user but i have used them alot in the past for church related stuff but nothing to a professional standard.

I am now planning to go to New York to purchasse a professional video camcorder in January and I need help.

Here are the 4 Cameras friends have reccomended to be the best for my money.

- Canon XH-A1
- Canon XL2
- Panasonic HVX100b
- Panasonic HVX200

from what I know of these, the hvx200 and the XH-A1 are High Definition which is an ultimate bonus for any camera.

For me, the choice would have to be either the HVX200 or the XH-A1 as they both offer High Definition Video.

Budget Issues

I can afford either of these but only for their minimum packings, so i wont be able to afford P2 Cards for the HVX200 which could be a problem as everyone seems to ramble on about them being good and all (despite their expense!!!)

So to help me choose, i pose the following questions: -

- The HVX200 records to Mini-DV's...is it possible to record High Definition footage to Mini DVs on this camera? if so what is the set back for recording to Mini-DV's as opposed to P2 Cards + what is the maximum recordng capacity for Mini DV's? Does anyone have any sampled footage of their use with a HVX200 using mini-Dvs?

The camera is for making short films i hope to make during the course of 2007 and beyond, its an investment which im hoping will keep me going for a few years. Because of the amount of money im dishing out on it im hoping i will be able to get the most out of it despite my lack of knowledge when it commands to professional cameras i plan to learn alot during the way. I figured because of the budget i might aswell just get something really expensive and learn to use it rather then throw out money on something basic to only learn it all and realize i have no more money to buy the high end stuff.

i know this is long but any help/feedback would be much appreciated.
 
If you're on a budget, you might want to stay away from High Def. It's very cool, but if you want to do shorts, you're going to want some lights, some audio, and a few other things. Not to mention a way to edit that stuff. High Def is more expensive all around.

I bought a Hi8 camera some years ago to learn with. You might want to look at getting a used DVX100.
 
Demetrius.

Try searching the forums before posting.

No, you can't record HD to DV tapes with the HVX200.

There are links to sample footage.

The differences between mpeg2 compressed HDV and DVCProHD are pretty well set out in these boards.

good luck in searching
 
If you are strapped for cash, and just getting into video production, I would stay away from the HVX200 for the time being. Don't get me wrong, I think it is an amazing camera, no doubt about that, but for a limited budget, your best bet is the xh-a1, which I just saw for the first time the other day on a 46" Sony XBR2 LCD and MAN was it incredible. The HVX will NOT allow you to record HD to mini-dv. It will need to be either P2, firestore, CitiDisk, or the soon to be released CinePorter. If you are considering the HVX 200, add about $2000-3000 to your budget on top of the initial purchase price of $5299. If variable frame rates are of no importance to you (IE in camera slow and fast motion) then you really don't need the HVX and the XH-A1 would be perfect. It's nice and light too! I would suggest gettig the XH-A1 and use the money saved from not buying an HVX 200 and buy a GOOD tripod with a fluid head (at least $500 or so, don't go to Best Buy or Circuit City, you need to go to bhphotovideo.com or other professional camera shops) and microphone.
 
thx robotx21, very helpful.

I was looking at some footage compared between the XH-A1 and the HVX 200, both impressive but the Canon seemed abit dry, colours didn't seem all too strong and all, nice all the same but hvx did look alot nicer.

So the XH-A1 offers high definition recording to Mini DV's...

and records true 24p (film look)...

just one question, is the XH-A1 better then the XL2?
 
Xl-2 is a standard definition camera. The XL-H1 and XH-A1 are both HDV cameras. If you shoot in HDV on either the XH-A1 or XL-H1 then downconvert in post to Standard Def (which most people are doing since HD distribution isn't quite there yet for the consumer) it will look SIGNIFICANTLY better. So to answer your question, yes, the XH-A1 will produce a better SD image when downconverted from HD. I have a friend who is actually going to sell his XL-2 to get the XH-A1. The XL-series camera don't have an LCD flip out display either. And the interchangable lens, I personally haven't found a use for that feature. If you want more zoom on your camera, just buy a 2X threaded lens to go over the XH-A1, instant telephoto lens! Cheers!

The muddy or dirty look you see of the XH-A1 is actually the camera settings. they haven't been properly tweaked to get the best results. You will probably spend a good week going through the user manual figuring out what the menu does...from what I saw there is a TON of manual settings to change! Great for people like me who like control...mwahahaha....but for starting it it may have a pretty steap learning curve. I suggest finding a samy's camera or possibly Fry's Electronics to take a look at the camera before buying, or go to a rental shop and see if they will let you look at one.
 
Demetrius said:
I can afford either of these but only for their minimum packings, so i wont be able to afford P2 Cards for the HVX200...
Click to expand...

If you can afford to buy before Dec. 31st, buy from an authroized dealer, and you'll get a free 8gb P2 card.

If you have to wait longer, I still think the HVX is a good choice. It takes great footage in SD on the DV tapes, so you can always use it as a DV cam until you can afford P2.
 
A couple things to consider:

The HVX200 provides excellent chroma sampling with its 4:2:2 color space. Even when shooting at standard definition using the DVCPro50 format it will pull a very good color key. If you're going to do any green screen work, it's worth considering.

The iris control on the HVX200 allows for subtle adjustments. It doesn't have the sudden hops in exposure as some other cameras in its class has. Check the HVX200's iris control and compare it to the Canon and see if there's a difference.

The zoom control on the HVX200 isn't as nice as that on some other cameras. The power zoom isn't all that fast when you need it to move quickly and I rely on the manual zoom instead. Also, the slow crawl isn't all that slow and I have to figure out how to deal with that soon.

If you shoot to P2 format, either for HD or SD, you'll need to set up lots and lots of storage space for all that data.
 
I hear the frame rate stuff isn't all too correct. or accurate...

24f etc...apparentally isn't true 24fps and lacks the film quality or something,
 
Demetrius said:
I hear the frame rate stuff isn't all too correct. or accurate...

24f etc...apparentally isn't true 24fps and lacks the film quality or something,
Click to expand...

You're thinking of the Canon -- it uses "24f" mode, which you can find info on by searching. The HVX uses true 24p. Very film like.
 
Demetrius said:
I hear the frame rate stuff isn't all too correct. or accurate...

24f etc...apparentally isn't true 24fps and lacks the film quality or something,
Click to expand...

Well a couple points, this is an HVX forum so opinions may be biased :) Just keep that in mind.

And the 24F mode on the XH A1 is correct and provides you with 24P video. It actually provides more total resolution than the HVX's 1080/24P video. You can dig up countless old posts on all sorts of forums with people poo pooing 24F, even though they haven't used it or understand it. Just go to DVInfo and check out some of the samples that Kaku Ito provided when he got his XH A1. I especially like the short clip of the band.

Really, you should probably spend a day or two doing nothing but hunting down footage and looking at it. What looks best to your eye should be the numberr one most important thing, with our internet forum opinions a somewhat distant second.

So here's my opinionated opinion: The HVX is the best budget HD camcorder. BUT, if your budget is tight its a rough choice. Even with the 8Gig P2 card, at 5K+ that gives you an HD cam that can record 1080P for 8 minutes. Then you'll need the time and storage mechanism to offload that 8 minutes of video. That means you better own a laptop or you'll need to buy one (or the P2 store or the firestore). And your shooting style will need to accomodate a shoot/offload cycle. Worth the effort for a film project, no go on event videography. As has been pointed out in the past, the HVX is essentially a very good and well priced HD head but you've got to invest in some storage. For about 7K you can get an HVX with the Firestore and that would be worth it; if you've got 7K.

Now if your budget is more around 5K, I'd recomend either an XH A1 or the new Sony V1. In the case of the Canon, that leaves you 1.3K to purchase a good solid tripod and microphone. Those two items will enhance your projects a lot and work with any camera. In a year or two, if you're looking to move up you can sell the Canon (and probably get a lot of your initial purchase back) and put that money towards an HVX or perhaps even some other new Pana product with the forthcoming AVCHD Intra Frame codec. And you'll still have your pro tripod and mic.

Seriously though, get your hands on as much footage as possible from all the cameras. And think through about everything you'll really need to accomplish your goals with your camcorder. Its not just the camera; there's tripods, microphones, lights, software, workflow, etc.. to consider.

Good luck!
 
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