XH-A1/XL-H1 Multicam Test Shoot

You can all thank or blame me for the H1 footage! :) I was just planning on showing up to the shoot to hang out and help out if I could (take some pictures while there, which I still did... more that in minute) and basically have a good time. Then around 10am or so, Elton calls me and asks if I can bring my H1 with me. He thought that a 3 camera shoot would look good (the third camera was George D's JVC HD100), and he got to thinking that showing off the A1 and the H1 on the same shoot would be a nice test of how well they match. So, I brought it, and let Elton set up the camera to best mimic what the A1 was set to. And thus you have what's been posted. I think it looks pretty darn cool, IMO. I'm more than ready to try something like this again, although hopefully with a little more advanced notice! (I heard about the shoot the night before!) Lot of fun!

Now, since I did take some pictures, I posted them online. These were taken with my cheapo Sony MD something still camera. The only people to see these so far have been some friends of mine. Enjoy... http://www.flickr.com/photos/vongfilm/
 
Barry_Green said:
A1 does have XLR inputs, but there are a lot of restrictions on how they can be used as compared to what you're used to (DVX/HVX). They are both line or both mic, you can't have one internal and one external, you can't set both channels to the same input and then adjust the volume individually for both channels, etc.
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The etc. in the end looks like that what you listed here is just the beginning? I think you listed the restrictions all.

But even if you do not want to use an external portable mixer (if you do, you have way better control and amplification quality than using a hvx/dvx) there are creative ways to overcome the differences.

1) To overcome the limitation when plugging (1) microphone and use that into Channel 1 and 2 together with volume control over both channels independently, is using a XLR splitter. For $10 the limitation is gone.

2) If you want to use channel 1 for Microphone and channel 2 for Line signal together you can pad down the line channel with a small in-line pad. For $35 the limitation is gone.

Now how often do you use one line signal and 1 mic signal together without a mixer? If you use the pad and the xlr splitter you are happy in 99% of all shootings. But for the XH-G1, Canon better gives you that possibility for free, you pay enough.
 
Elton said:
I guess you can eke out a small measure of added "openness" in the frame this way, but my point was simply that there's only so far you can go with a small sensor camera.

That said, if you have the space to signifigantly move the camera back from the subject and keep the iris as open as possible, the 20x zoom can give you some nice shallow DOF.
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As suspected. And even more with a 1.6/7x addition. But I get what you're saying, definitely.

Thanks for the narrative style footage, guys!
 
Hello all, I'm contemplating buying an A1, and this footage definitely evokes the wallet-out-of-pocket, money-out-of-wallet response from me... (also known as WOOP-MOOW syndrome). Are you sure you're not a talented camera sales person as well, Elton?

Question for Elton: what was the bitrate/datarate in your DivX encoding...
The reason I'm asking is, I want to know if I would want to deliver HD content in DivX to a customer or not.
Suppose it would be played on a HDTV, my options are an HD DVD player like Toshiba or a DivX HD dvd or hard disk media player. The limitations on burning to a standard DVD+R, from what I can gather from the forum so far, are a 20 mins maximum that can be recorded and played back on a HD DivX DVD player. However, if I want to use a media player like this one: http://www.airlinktek.com/english/prod_mg350.htm
I could install a 320 GB drive (seen em packaged that way on ebay) and play footage, well, almost forever.
just like you sent these files to share with our forum, I would want to send files over the internet to remote clients, which they can then download to their media box and play on their HDTV. No hassle with multiple DVD's in the mail...server hassles instead! hooray for technology!

What I'm trying to say is, what would be the min. and max data rate for encoding into DivX? To keep files small enough for overnight download, yet high quality enough for HDTV playback?

That reminds me, many average HDTVs are of 1366 x 768p resolution...for my purpose, would you crop the HDV resolution down to this format, or would you still opt for 1280x720?


Also, I noticed a slight pixelation early in the 20mb chess pick up shots on the exterior of the coffee shop and soon after on the girl's cheek when we see her en profile and a shadow falls over the side of her face turned towards the camera. Would a higher bitrate when converting to DivX solve this problem? or is it due to something else, my pc settings, the hdv codec, or anything else...I fear these beauty marks might become exaggerated on a 42" plasma when viewed from less than 5 feet...

Disclaimer: I'm not that technical, so excuse my lack of or improper use of jargon...

-oh and carrying on like that: if you feel i should start a new thread, let me know-
 
@ " What I'm trying to say is, what would be the min. and max data rate for encoding into DivX? To keep files small enough for overnight download, yet high quality enough for HDTV playback? "

This is really trial and error. There are many parameters you can change, best is making a batch (I use software like Media Cleaner Pro that can use all codecs) with different parameters, crunch the videos over night, review them, change parameters and so on. You know the stream bitrate and need to know the datawith from customers.

This is (together with the codec choice) a lot of work to do it optimal. You need to 'flag' fast moving parts - difficulty for encoding- and use different parameters for different movies. Some is handwork some is intelligent software.
Speed versus Quality.
 
You'll be happy to know that I encoded the divx file at 6 mbs, (1280x720 @ 23.98 fps) and at the medium encoding quality to speed ratio setting in the divx converter. You can get even better results if you're willing to wait for longer encodes.

I believe at that bit rate you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 to 2 hrs on a single DVD-R burned as a DIVX HD disc.
 
The Intern said:
Also, I noticed a slight pixelation early in the 20mb chess pick up shots on the exterior of the coffee shop and soon after on the girl's cheek when we see her en profile and a shadow falls over the side of her face turned towards the camera. Would a higher bitrate when converting to DivX solve this problem?
Click to expand...

A higher bit rate or a longer render/encode might solve it. Two pass compression can often fix little pixelization problems...even at relatively low bit rates.
 
Thank you, Elton and Xray! Perhaps I would test Elton's footage on a friend's HDTV first, which has HDMI...my computer has a graphics card with DVI out, will a DVI to HDMI display this full res? I read somewhere that DVI out to HDTV is limited to 1024x...Or would I need to have an HDMI out on my PC to watch it full res?
 
The Intern said:
Thank you, Elton and Xray! Perhaps I would test Elton's footage on a friend's HDTV first, which has HDMI...my computer has a graphics card with DVI out, will a DVI to HDMI display this full res? I read somewhere that DVI out to HDTV is limited to 1024x...Or would I need to have an HDMI out on my PC to watch it full res?
Click to expand...
I believe you can try the HDMI out cable and you'll be fine. But, it does not carry sound over the HDMI. I think there's a certain type of card for that, and/or motherboard.

I watch all of the hi-def content via DVI out as well, but my television has a DVI input. I can certainly put the screen into 1920x1080i mode, as it is not 1080p. Works just fine though. =)

I can tell you right now, you'll feel a LOT better viewing these on VLC player DVI out. They're HD all-freaking-right.
 
Kholi said:
I believe you can try the HDMI out cable and you'll be fine. But, it does not carry sound over the HDMI. I think there's a certain type of card for that, and/or motherboard.

I watch all of the hi-def content via DVI out as well, but my television has a DVI input. I can certainly put the screen into 1920x1080i mode, as it is not 1080p. Works just fine though. =)

I can tell you right now, you'll feel a LOT better viewing these on VLC player DVI out. They're HD all-freaking-right.
Click to expand...

Thanks Kholi!

Yeah I use VLC as well at the moment. So by being 'fine' with HDMI out, do you mean I can use DVI to HDMI and be fine? I only have DVI out at the moment.

The Mediagate hard disk external case also has a DVI out, not HDMI. Only some HD DivX players have HDMI out.
So is there a loss somewhere, converting DVI to HDMI?
:dankk2:
 
Barlow,

I already watched it. Talented actress.

It seems the A1 (actress shot) out perform the XL-H1 (actor shot) in your test. Film look like with better color rendering/temperature vs. more videoish and less cinematic though it's only my opinion.

Was the chess scene all shot with the A1? Ext shot? Actress close-up? Actor close-up? Chess board? Her hands moving the chess? Or was it mixed with the XL-H1? Just curious...

:dankk2:

E.
 
In the long improvised dialog take, the actress shot is the A1, and the actor is the H1. The short chess thing with music is all A1.

We screwed up the lighting, exposure and possibly the white balance on the H1 shot. The difference is very slight between the two cameras, IMHO.

They intercut extremely well, overall.
 
Elton said:
We screwed up the lighting, exposure and possibly the white balance on the H1 shot. The difference is very slight between the two cameras, IMHO.
Click to expand...
I agree. My only doubt is the lowlighting. Still those Michael's noise free XL-H1 clips... Pretty amazing.


EDIT -- Even if the Kaku Ito's stuff can already prove something. But that shooter is not Michael. :)
 
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We never white balanced the H1, nor the A1 AFAIK. Both camera's were set to Auto White Balance. Not exactly something that's very professional (at least to me :smile:). Exposure was close, from what I remember. Elton set most of that up, and I thought the settings seemed pretty decent when I took a glance. Lighting most definitely could have been messed. It seems to me that there was more light on Sydney than there was on Will. Then again, I'm getting old and my memory might be going! :cheesy:
 
:dankk2: Barlow! I believe it was fair. I'm just a -3db fan and I'd like to watch some footage posted according this setting and with the blacks crushed to maximum (even beyond the common setup) -- is there anyone for the task?
 
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