RED, REDCINE with low-end applications

The JL Cooper MCS Spectrum control station starts at $3000. I've never used one, but it seems as if it should do a similar job to the expensive controllers.

The main thing a control surface gives you for colour correcting is the ability to adjust two parameters at once, as it's the interaction of the various parameters that gives the 'look'. It's similar to audio mixing, where you can move one fader at a time with an onscreen control, but the ability to use multiple physical faders with two hands makes the process much more intuitive, and colour correction, like sound mixing, is very much about having a good feel for it.

Nick
 
WHen your talking about Color Aperture, are you talking about color finesse?

1. Pro grade on dedicated 4K system (Lustre, DiVinci) -- very expensive, top-notch results.
2. Pro grade at 2K on Avid Nitris or Flame -- less expensive, but not cheap, lower resolution.
3. After Effects with Color Aperture -- $2000 for the programs and a lot of late nights, but good results with someone who knows color. (You still need a good monitoring set-up)
4. After Effects out of the box -- $1000 for the program, a lot of late nights and inferior results
5. Shake -- $500 -- lots of late nights just learning the damn thing. Then more late nights trying to get the damn thing to grade your film. Save it for your sky replacements and robot battle shots.[/QUOTE]
 
im.thatoneguy said:
That was an assertion Jared made earlier that I still take exception to. I can think of about 10 applications off the top of my head that can handle 4k footage.

Just about any compositing application available today is resolution independent. So I wouldn't really list it as a feature. It's much akin to saying "Windows Movie Maker is one of the few editing applications able to edit HD footage."
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Fusion is good for 8k...
 
optica said:
Was just kiddin dude. Aaaanyway,

I had the great honour and pleasure of working with Cesar Charlone (DOP, City of God) on a feature. What I learned was invaluable. You don't need the highest end most expensive tools to get great images.

70% of CoG was shot on 16mm and up-ressed to 35mm. With clever use of make up and lighting on set, he got stunning results with simple colour correction. While I wont give the whole game away, lets just say a certain colour makeup was used. If you,ve seen the flick you'll know what I mean.

Of course if you've got the cash to spend, go for it. Lustre and others cost a lot for a reason.

Peace out.
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I just went out and got COG on dvd to check out what your talking about there.. About to watch it, but would you care to share what makeup techniques were used? If not, then thanks anyway, never ceases to amaze me how much I learn from the great contributors on this forum everyday.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Actually I'm pretty sure The Orphanage has moved over to Fusion for almost all of its compositing.
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Which doesn't make their work on After Effects less impressive or diminishes the potential of the app in itself. (IMHO)
 
Having experience with the color correction tools in Photoshop is always a plus, but it still takes knowledge of color space and experience to know what happens when things get pushed around.

It's something that takes time to learn for those who want to learn it. You have to be a geek about it, like anything else.

You have to know when something is within your means to do and when it's better to get help.

Color grading isn't plug and play, though sooner than later it'll be easier, as the high end and the low end meet in the middle. Control surfaces are available now that are generic, you just have to make it work with your apps.

You don't need a control surface, but it helps. There's something about intuitive tools that let you do something without having think about doing it.

It's like why use Photoshop with a mouse, when a WACOM tablet gives you way more control and it's easy to use.

You can use After Effects or any other app for your color grading, as long as you understand how the tools can help you and know that it'll take longer to get results.

Many films have used After Effects, some more visibly than others. It's not as interactive as a Flame/Inferno, or flexible as Shake, but it's a workhorse app and as long as you have a beefy machine to run it on and don't mind the render times, you can get excellent results.

LOTR:Fellowship of the Ring was color graded with Shake, though I'm sure they had a lot of custom designed plugins and apps to help the process.
 
Anybody read any good books on color grading and also more advanced compositing? One that's alittle more advanced in it's approach... specific techniques and such... It seems like every book on these subjects stop when they become interesting...

Thanks for all the great replies by the way. This is very educational. I would also hand in my footage to a professional colorist on a major project. Not just because of expertise, but also it will only help the project to get a fresh pair of eyes on the footage. But that aside, it is an interesting world and wouldn't hurt to know more about it.
 
Shaw said:
Actually, I believe they used Lustre.
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I think it was the software that startet Lustre in the first place. Some company named ColorFront developed the software used in Fellowship of the ring... Then they merged with Discreet (now autodesk) and then there was Lustre... I believe that's the full story..
 
Kjetil Haugen said:
Anybody read any good books on color grading and also more advanced compositing? One that's alittle more advanced in it's approach... specific techniques and such... It seems like every book on these subjects stop when they become interesting...

Thanks for all the great replies by the way. This is very educational. I would also hand in my footage to a professional colorist on a major project. Not just because of expertise, but also it will only help the project to get a fresh pair of eyes on the footage. But that aside, it is an interesting world and wouldn't hurt to know more about it.
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It's best to first find books on color science if you want to get that deep into it. You really need to be a geek about it.

Remember, a colorist has a team, an assistant to help with the prep and setup, engineers for hardware/software setup and calibration, and imaging/color specialists to maintain integrity of the image.


From what I remember, Shake was used for with color grading plugins from 5D, which got bought out by Colorfront, then by Discreet. It could easily have been an Inferno, since those plugins available as Sparks too. Lustre came later in the game.
 
With regard to colour grading LOTR, I sat in on a presentation given by Andrew Lesnie (DP) along with Autodesk where they demonstrated how they did the colour grading (it's on the LOTR Extended Edition box set if you are interested). I believe Kjetil has it right when he says that the software they used on LOTR kind of evolved into Lustre through buyouts and lots of custom plugins. Either way, it was mighty impressive just how bland the original footage appeared compared to the final grade! I remarked to a friend that the original footage looked like the stuff I shot in film school on Super16 (I exaggerate, but you get the idea), which also made me realise that I could one day take my original footage, re-scan it in via laser at 2K/4K and have it properly graded to make it look tons better! One day....
 
Kjetil Haugen said:
I think it was the software that startet Lustre in the first place. Some company named ColorFront developed the software used in Fellowship of the ring... Then they merged with Discreet (now autodesk) and then there was Lustre... I believe that's the full story..
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Yep. Colorfront's 5D Colossus graded LOTR. Lustre graded King Kong.
 
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