Should I pass on HVX200 for budget reasons?

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der4

Active member
Hi everyone,

Most recently I directed a feature film with a Varicam and an HVX200. The DVCPro codec has been easy and useful in post production.

I'm looking for suggestions. I am use to filming with certain tools. Without these I feel inadequate as a director on set. I have some Nikon lenses that will work well with the Brevis. I can't imagine being on set without lenses. I feel using lenses to control focus is very important to the story telling process. I also need to pull focus. Even if its an inexpensive follow focus like the indiFOCUS. I need a matte box and geardear seems very reasonable. Because of the flipscreen issues I figure I need to get an LCD as well but those aren't cheap either. I could lug around my CRT if necessary. I also need a Utility Trailer. With $1500 and a credit line at homedepot I could purchase one. I just don't have room in my SUV for my lights or other equipment. And renting a trailer adds up.

I do own a laptop for offloading onto a PC for P2 cards. I only have about $7500.00 to spend. Now I must admit that I love variable frame rates. It adds a lot to a film. Plus, my script is a drama which lends itself well to slowmotion. I prefer not doing the 60i coversion but it can be done. The question is should I go with the Sony V1U or Canon A1 instead of the HVX200 for now and perhaps get an HVX200 later? For the price the sony/canon is a good deal. I really can't imagine shooting without follow focus, lenses, and a matte box for filters etc.
This is my thought:

Sony/Canon HDV 4000 instead of HVX200
Brevis/rods 1200
Utility Trailer 1500 (need it to transport equipment)
Follow Focus 400 (IndiFOCUS)
Geardear 350 (matte box)

Another option is to purchase a nice tripod and a dvx100b. $7500 is all I have for a camera package and accessories.

Your comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Anthony
:)
 
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Please forgive me if I sound rude here...but are you high???

Sorry, it just seemed like you were rambling on alot.

Anyway, sounds like your point is that you can't afford the HVX AND get the follow focus, lenses and tripod so you'd rather just go with a cheaper camera. I don't think you're gonna save that much money. Consider renting the other gear. As far as the camera, remember the old saying: "you get what you pay for"

ripupthehwy
 
Thanks for the reply ripupthehwy and editorial notes. j/k No I'm not high. But close, my wife just had a baby girl and I'm not getting enough sleep!

Cheers!
 
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jajajajajajajaj
I must admit that was kind of a weird post...
ANYWAY...
If your point is; if you should go with HVX or DVX or whatever, because you can't afford it... I would say DEFINETLY PASS!
I sincerely think that if your story is good enough, and your actors are good enough, cinematography, etc... I think you can make it without an HVX...
I could've seen MAN ON FIRE or BABEL, or any other good movie without even noticing the camera... granted, IT DOES HELP, but that's NOT why I go to the movies, I go for the story, first and foremost...
So I would definetly go with what you can afford...
 
Thanks! ouch... Just be greatful I edited the post it was really weird.

I agree that story is most important. But I think that a decent image is a close second.

So what camera would you go with? What would you pass on and why? Would you get a nicer tripod?
 
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You mean without these you feel inadequate as a director of photography/cameraman?
You can do without the matte box... They do look cool and occasionally they come in handy but you really don't need one...

And you've stated how important variable frame rates are... I think that alone is worth the extra money... plus if you've just had a kid... shouldn't you be spending a little time with it before you go off making films? That could give you a little more time to earn the extra cash for the HVX... but hey... maybe I'm biased...

Good luck with the feature.
 
You say you want to do narrative and don't want to convert 60i to 24 frame in post. I think you've answered your own question.

Panasonic DVX or HVX hands down. I've seen some incredible Sony HDV narrative work done, but it takes a significant amount of work in post to coax that look out of 60i. I've been working with the new Canon XLH1s with the standard 20x lens quite a bit, and it's a nice lump too. Still HDV at the end of the day and that means compromises galore in your colorspace.

For filmouts, native 24 frame from the HVX is simply the most elegant option.

HVX is significantly more expensive to shoot, even if you flirt with disaster by placing your "negatives" on only one hard drive. About a buck a gig or $.40 a minute in 720 24/PN.

I personally think you can pass on DOF converters in narrative work, but you've got to be willing to light and unlight to keep your options open for shallow DOF.

The trailer is a brilliant idea if you're willing to finance a <$4k expenditure. I've almost bought one about ten times, but where I need to go, no Home Depot or Wells Cargo trailer will be able to keep up with the Rovers.

e
 
unless you want to use that A1 as a deck, plan to add another $1000 for the canon HV10 or get firestore. Which by the time that happens, the Canon System is already costing you $ 4800.

You can get a HVX with 8 gig p2 card for $4995 from an authorized dealer.
 
Congrats on the new baby girl ! Much better than boys. . ..The HVX200 will bring out the lovely HD in your new baby's smiles. .
 
der4 said:
Thanks! ouch... Just be greatful I edited the post it was really weird.

I agree that story is most important. But I think that a decent image is a close second.

So what camera would you go with? What would you pass on and why? Would you get a nicer tripod?
Click to expand...

I would feed the baby and go with the DVX, a good microphone, tapes and a computer...

scratch the tripod... or buy a cheap one... I have a $40 velbon, which I rarely use...
In my new movie I rarely used a tripod, but only because the story demanded it... I went handheld 95% of the time... I have 2-3 dolly shots (I used a home depot gardening cart I bought for $60)...

I use the HVX without any accesories, just the HVX with 4gb p2 cards... I just use a shotgun and go...

I think that the movie looks incredible... it could've looked better with an m2, or with actual film, or cranes, a real dolly, etc... but I couldn't afford it, but the movie did not suffer for that... you do what you can...
 
der4 said:
I'm looking for suggestions. I am use to filming with certain tools. Without these I feel inadequate as a director on set. I have some Nikon lenses that will work well with the Brevis. I can't imagine being on set without lenses. I feel using lenses to control focus is very important to the story telling process. I also need to pull focus. Even if its an inexpensive follow focus like the indiFOCUS. I need a matte box and geardear seems very reasonable. Because of the flipscreen issues I figure I need to get an LCD as well but those aren't cheap either. I could lug around my CRT if necessary. I also need a Utility Trailer. With $1500 and a credit line at homedepot I could purchase one. I just don't have room in my SUV for my lights or other equipment. And renting a trailer adds up.
Click to expand...

I would question your interpretation of "need". You need these things over a better original image? I say start with the best camera possible and build up. The HVX is fantastic.

And yes script comes first.
 
Thanks dusterdoo I'm a very proud dad! Bluegray I agree "need" is very subjective therefore this post. I'm curious what the majority of you would do? I'm trying to be objective on this purchase and all of your feedback is appreciated.

I already own a Mac Pro and a Decklink HD Pro card. I use FCP/Protools/AE. I also have extra harddrive space, a PC laptop, and a decent boom/mic system.

The budget is just for the Camera Package. $7500.00 (Assuming I don't spend $1500 towards the utility trailer.) I don't want to wait and save more money because I'm a shooter. I can earn more money with a camera then the amount I could save waiting. To me this is an investment to help me grow.

If I skip on the trailer I will not be able to transport as much grip and lighting gear on the location shoots.

Would you all skip out on a nicer tripod?

Would you buy the HVX200 and build up to a complete camera package later?

With the DVX100 I could buy a complete package with higher grade accessories and then sell the DVX100 in the future and just upgrade to a new camera. Another interesting note the Canon A1 is selling at $3500.00.

Also why would I need a firestore for HDV? I can just use tape like using a DVX100.
Thanks.
 
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der4 said:
<snip>Also why would I need a firestore for HDV? I can just use tape like using a DVX100.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, many that have gone tapeless (weather it be an HVX owner or Firestore user) feel that you absolutely cannot use your $3500-4000 cam as a deck. The reality of course is that you can.

So if budgeting is tight, you can start with an A1 or V1 and use it as a cam and a deck. Later, when more funds are available, you can add a firestore.

Don't get me wrong, the HVX with the 8Gig P2 rebate (if you can wait for it of course) is a superb deal and a great cam. If you can go with the P2 workflow and don't need to do long form video (weddings, etc.), that's the route I'd recommend for your film.

If you need to do your film and make money on the side with event videography, then the XH A1 is a great unit, and I'm sure the Sony will be nice too.

Good luck!
 
HVX with 8gb card goes for 5100 usd. Lenses (second hand) about 800 for 3 decent nikor. Follow focus (don't know the price) (Marshall monitor- you'll need that for focusing with a 35mm adaptor- 1200 dollars)- total 7100 USD. Brevis- 1000 USD aprox.- Total 8100 USD. Very close to your budget. You already have the PC part of the equation, so I believe you're pretty close to an ideal setup. Just don't forget you need to invest in hard drives.
 
just my 2 cents here. i bought the hvx because I consider it to be somewhat future proof. the images it produces are great, and in time the price of p2 will drop ( hopefully significantly ). Ive shot mostly sd to mini dv as of late with great results, but just got the firestore 100, and plan on slowly investing in a completely HD workflow. Even as new cameras come out, i think the hvx will at least hold its own for some time.
 
der4 said:
I don't want to wait and save more money because I'm a shooter. I can earn more money with a camera then the amount I could save waiting. To me this is an investment to help me grow.
. . .
Would you all skip out on a nicer tripod?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't skip out on a nicer tripod if you are going to be earning money as a shooter. There are several Tripod packages for about a grand that have nice fluid heads and are light enough to to use in the field. Also a nice tripod is future proof. The tripod I got for my DVX would work for an HVX, or any camera package in the future that didn't weight more than 15 pounds or so. Just a thought.

~Ian
 
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