Canadian HVX-200 price drop

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M

Media Productions Canada

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The HVX-200 has drop in price by $1000.00. I just bought mine 2 months ago and now its $1000.00 less!!!! Is anybody else in the same boat?
Panasonic in the USA is offering a Repate with a free 8gig P2 card but nothing yet here in Canada.
 
I am sure there are a lot of people in the same boat. But it is something that you and others will NEED to get over. There has been a couple of threads with people talking about the injustice. In a couple gigs, I paid off the money I spent. I dont care that they are giving free cards, or if a price drops. I had a gig lined up the day after I got my camera. I suggest people do the same.

ANYTHING you buy has a risk of price drop, or loosing its value. I dont see anyone complaining about there Automobiles. As soon as your drive it off the lot, it looses 25% of its value. That is more than 5k.

I know I sound really blunt. But It is technology. A year almost after something comes out, there is bound to be some changes.
 
I understand what you are saying, but its still a kick the nuts when it drops by that much after 2 months. I need have the camera payed off with the first job I did with it but it still hurts.
I'm sure you would be pissed if you brought a car one month and the next month they drop the price by $5000.00 on the same new car.
I just think Panasonic Canada should be doing the same as the US and offer a rebate with an 8 gig P2 card.
 
Car manufacturers do that all the time though. You buy one day, and the next day you find out that they've announced $3,000 CASH BACK or whatever.

It happens.

Make your decision based on what's offered today, and get it when you need it. And if you don't need it, don't get it. And when you get it, if you needed it, does it matter what it costs tomorrow?

Prices will always go down, and capabilities will always go up. That's the nature of technology. We should be rooting for that, not complaining about it.
 
I bought My HVX 200 with 2 4 GB cards almost a year ago, cost me US$ 12.000, and it had given to me a profit about US$ 30.000 in this time and before christmas it will grow up by US$ 20.000 more.

That's one reason way you get technology, other is for fun, in such circumstances, does the price matters?

If money matters, be sure you are going to profit it.
 
Well Im still waiting for the european prices to go down? 8687$ is to much for a HVX200...

So I dont wanna hear any yelling about how bad is it that the prices dropped 100$ ; )
 
No offense, but price adjustments and drop occur all the time. It's a fact of life for technology.

Funny, I never hear anyone complaining when a price goes up.
 
MovieSwede said:
Well Im still waiting for the european prices to go down? 8687$ is to much for a HVX200...

So I dont wanna hear any yelling about how bad is it that the prices dropped 100$ ; )
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Unbelievable that people complain about being able to acquire amazing HD footage with a camera for under $10,000.
About 10 years ago I had a friend that wanted a computer but didn't want to buy a new one because it was too much money and he was waiting for the next generation to come out so the price would drop on the current one. When it did come out, it had some great new bells and whistles that he really wanted but didn't want to pay the price, so he thought he would wait 'till the price dropped on that one. He still doesn't own a computer as he is waiting for the next one to come out.
 
I'm not complaining about the camera and the footage that it creates one bit. I love the camera and it works amazing. I'm just bummed that Canada isn't doing the same rebate the the US is doing. I could sure do with another 8gig P2 card.
$1000.00 bucks is a $1000.00 bucks, maybe the rest of you are big time and don't have the worry about money but for the small guy it does hurt when I think about the extras I could have got with the extra $1000.00 going into something else.
I am curious to know when you think a appropriate lenght of time would be from the date of buying a camera to the date it Drops in price by a big amount? 1 year? 6 months? 2 months?
What if somebody bought the camera one week and the next week they had the price drop?
I have worked in retail sales for a long time and I know that companies do give rebates to customers and retailers when situations like this happen.
It doesn't hurt to ask to see if they can do anything about it. I have already spoken to the store where I got the camera and they are looking into things for me and seeing if they can do anything for me and if Panasonic can do anything for me.
I submitted the thread to see if anybody was in the same boat and see if they wanted to maybe work together about the situation.
I know that it is amazing to have a camera that shoots this quality of HD for under 10,000.00 but say that you go in and buy the camera today and they tell you, you can pay $7000.00 or you can pay $6000.00. Are you going to pay the $7000.00 just because you are getting such a great deal for a camera that shoots HD?
 
I am curious to know when you think a appropriate lenght of time would be from the date of buying a camera to the date it Drops in price by a big amount? 1 year? 6 months? 2 months?
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As soon as possible, as much as possible. Who knows, I might need a second one.

Seriously, what does it matter? I mean, really -- you make your decision, you go forward. Put the camera to work. Make it pay itself off.

What if somebody bought the camera one week and the next week they had the price drop?
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Panasonic USA gave a 30-day retroactive "price protection" policy on the free 8GB card deal -- they announced the deal on about October 30th that it would apply for anyone buying from November 1st onward, but they said that it would retroactively apply to anyone who bought in the last 30 days.

They also gave price protection to people who bought 8gb cards back when they had the big price drop from $2200 down to $1400.

They also made the HVX Book rebate deal retroactive to *any* purchaser in the USA, regardless of when you'd bought the camera.


A lot of people seem upset when the price goes down, and I just don't get what they expect to have done about it. Do they expect that once they buy the product, that establishes some sort of clause with the company that says "okay, now you can never lower your prices"? This is technology, folks! It's going to drop in price. It's going to plummet in price -- look at the XLH1 ($9000) to the XHA1 ($4000). It happens.

How does the price drop affect you in any way? Unless you're planning on selling your gear right away, what difference does it make? You made a business decision. You felt that it was worth the price you paid (or else you wouldn't have bought it). So now you've got it, make it work for you and move on. Put it to work and make some money from it, and very soon you won't care what the price is (except for if your business is growing, you may need a second one -- and then you'll be very glad that the price went down!)

I guarantee it'll go down in price again. And the cards will go down in price. And a new model will (someday) be introduced. And then that one's price will go down. So? Not to be flippant, but how does that have any bearing on you and your business right now? The Avid system used to cost $50,000; now you can get set up with XPress Pro for $3000 total. Sure Avid guys who paid the $50,000 may wish that they could have got it for $3000, but are we saying that Avid should never have lowered their price? That would be unrealistic to expect! It's computer technology. I just bought a laptop for $1800. I know that three months from now it'll probably be going for $1200. So? I needed it now, I got it now, I put it to work now, it's doing the job I need done now.

Lots of people have paid off their entire HVX kits in the first month of ownership. Once you do that, you really don't care much what happens to the price, because it's "free" to you.

This isn't the stock market, it's technology. In tech, the prices go one way and one way only -- down.
 
I am definitely not going to throw in an intended jk comment here, like in a previous thread. (cheese with whine) :D

I've been down the tech road over the last decade or so. I took a bath on productions, Avid and SGI systems, etc... Key to this game, imo, is cash flow. You have to beat the inbuilt obsolescence factor on the capital outlay for the tools, as to the ROI.
 
Barry_Green said:
Panasonic USA gave a 30-day retroactive "price protection" policy on the free 8GB card deal -- they announced the deal on about October 30th that it would apply for anyone buying from November 1st onward, but they said that it would retroactively apply to anyone who bought in the last 30 days.
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Barry, are saying those that purchased from October 1 are eligible?

Is this on the web site somewhere?

thanks
 
Barry_Green said:
Seriously, what does it matter? I mean, really -- you make your decision, you go forward. Put the camera to work. Make it pay itself off.

It's going to plummet in price -- look at the XLH1 ($9000) to the XHA1 ($4000).

The Avid system used to cost $50,000; now you can get set up with XPress Pro for $3000 total.

How does the price drop affect you in any way? Unless you're planning on selling your gear right away, what difference does it make?

Not to be flippant, but how does that have any bearing on you and your business right now?

This isn't the stock market, it's technology. In tech, the prices go one way and one way only -- down.
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Barry, I respectfully disagree with many of your analogies.

Canon's XLH1 and XHA1 are different models. Avid's XPress Pro is a vastly different implementation than their editors of years ago. It's true that Moore's Law applies as new products come to market, but what gets under my skin - and apparently under the skin of some others in this string - is when a manufacturer de-values their own product. How would current Mercedes S-Class owners respond if Mercedes-Benz suddenly cut S-Class pricing from $87,000 to $49,995?

I compete with other shooters. One barrier to my competition's market entry is the cost of equipment. By cheapening the product I just purchased, Panasonic has enabled others to begin competing with me with a lower initial capital cost, thereby enabling them to charg lower fees for their services. This is how cheapening of the product I just purchased has a very direct and immediate bearing on me and my business. It has the same impact on your production business, too, Barry. The recent chaotic market pricing caused by Panasonic's uncontrolled gray import doesn't help, either.

Running occasional promotions for P2 cards, batteries, etc. is one thing. Panasonic's overtly cheapening a product because of a few months' slow sales is another thing completely.

Incidentally, I can think of no under-$10k HD camera model which has plummeted in cost, but maybe I missed something.

Instead of continuously cheapening the value of the product I and many others recently purchassed, what Panasonic should do is introduce an AG-HVX150.

Mercedes-Benz, a class act, figured this out when they brought out the C-Class.

The above is offered with sincere respect.
 
Barry,

Am I reading you correctly? Does this mean that Panasonic will protect me on my 9/28/06 purchase and send me the 8-gig card????

Ned Soltz
 
Berry I did pay off my camera with the first job I did with it.
My real problem is that Panasonic CANADA is Not Giving the same
8 gig Rebate as the USA but the camera has drop down to the same
price here. If you read my first post you would see that I said CANADA not USA.
I Just want PANASONIC to do the same cross the boarder.
Looks like I have started to stir the pot a little with this thread!
 
Bob Diesso said:
How would current Mercedes S-Class owners respond if Mercedes-Benz suddenly cut S-Class pricing from $87,000 to $49,995?

I compete with other shooters. One barrier to my competition's market entry is the cost of equipment. By cheapening the product I just purchased, Panasonic has enabled others to begin competing with me with a lower initial capital cost, thereby enabling them to charg lower fees for their services. This is how cheapening of the product I just purchased has a very direct and immediate bearing on me and my business. It has the same impact on your production business, too, Barry. The recent chaotic market pricing caused by Panasonic's uncontrolled gray import doesn't help, either.

Running occasional promotions for P2 cards, batteries, etc. is one thing. Panasonic's overtly cheapening a product because of a few months' slow sales is another thing completely.

Incidentally, I can think of no under-$10k HD camera model which has plummeted in cost, but maybe I missed something.

Instead of continuously cheapening the value of the product I and many others recently purchassed, what Panasonic should do is introduce an AG-HVX150.

Mercedes-Benz, a class act, figured this out when they brought out the C-Class.

The above is offered with sincere respect.
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Car dealers, including MB drop prices all the time. Call up and see what it would cost to buy a one year old MB that's been sitting in the warehouse or on a dealers lot for one year. i.e. Guaranteed you will pay less for a mew '05 model than what you would have paid for it a year ago. It is just the nature of business and technology. As Barry and others have said, you buy it when you need it. What ever happens after that in terms of pricing shouldn't have any affect on you.
As for the competition, well if someone can go and buy a camera for a $1000 less than what you paid and then take your jobs away from you, then you have to look at your business model and ask yourself what you can do personally to offer your clients something more than the other guy. Sure everyone is looking for the best deal when it comes to hiring an indepndent shooter but the best deal isn't always just about money.
I bought my camera 3 months ago and so I've missed out on the free 8 gb card and the price reduction but I dont care because the money I have made from the camera in that time far out weighs any rebate.
 
Bob Diesso said:
Canon's XLH1 and XHA1 are different models.
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Yes, they are. And that didn't stop a firestorm of Canon XLH1 owners shrieking over "how dare Canon introduce the same basic image at half the price!" etc. So yes while it's a different model, it does basically all the same job at half the cost (or less).

Avid's XPress Pro is a vastly different implementation than their editors of years ago.
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Yes, but you can do just about everything with XPress Pro that you used to be able to do with the bigger ones, and in many cases you can do more, and faster.

It's true that Moore's Law applies as new products come to market, but what gets under my skin - and apparently under the skin of some others in this string - is when a manufacturer de-values their own product. How would current Mercedes S-Class owners respond if Mercedes-Benz suddenly cut S-Class pricing from $87,000 to $49,995?
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Again, I simply don't follow the logic here. Have you somehow signed a contract with the company whereby they guarantee that they will never lower their prices? Have you never seen "employee pricing" where someone bought a Cadillac for $40,000 and the next week the same car is advertised for $32,000? Have you, in fact, never heard of the concept of something going "on sale"? It happens all the time. Especially in the tech industries! I'm not being petty here, I'm pointing out that prices are always in flux, they always change. Worrying about it is counterproductive, just make a business decision based on what today's best offerings are, and go forward. Yes things will change, tomorrow or next week or next month or six months from now. They'll change RADICALLY, too. That's the way things go now.

How do you think Varicam owners felt when the HVX came out at 1/10th the price? Sure it's a different product, but do you think some of them weren't a little ticked? Maybe they were, but if they were -- I mean, come on, get over it, things change, markets move, ride the wave. The FX1 delivers way more than 3% of the CineAlta's picture, for 3% of the price.

I'm sure everyone wishes that they could buy whatever they buy at the very cheapest price that anyone will ever pay. But the world doesn't work that way. Especially now. The world works much faster. Remember when Eurpoeans used to have to wait nine months for a movie to come out there, after it came out on the American market? Now it's basically simultaneous release (isn't it?) The Internet and Tivo and such have changed the way we deal with things. A camera isn't an "investment" anymore, so much as it is nearly a commodity. Especially at these price points. We're not spending $60,000 for a BetaCam SP BVW600 anymore, we're shelling out six grand for an HVX. I don't need to rent it for years to have it make its money back (like the old business model required). I make it back on one or two jobs, and then it's free. Disposable. A commodity. If I need the newest/greatest, I'll get that, and sell the current one on ebay. Welcome to the tech market of 2006. Just wait to see what it's like three years from now! :)

One barrier to my competition's market entry is the cost of equipment. By cheapening the product I just purchased, Panasonic has enabled others to begin competing with me with a lower initial capital cost, thereby enabling them to charg lower fees for their services. This is how cheapening of the product I just purchased has a very direct and immediate bearing on me and my business. It has the same impact on your production business, too, Barry.
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Yeah, but -- my rates haven't gone down. They pay my day rate regardless of what product I use. As my skills increase, I charge more for my day rate. Doesn't matter what equipment I'm using. It just so happens that by owning the gear I can become far more skilled on it than I could if I was an occasional renter, and my client benefits from that. Gear is billed separately.

You will never stop kids from buying cheapo camcorders (or even expensive camcorders!) and setting themselves up in business. That will always happen. But my clients don't go bottom-feeding for whatever kid has the latest toys, and even those that do dally with the cheap seats always come back (usually repentant, with hat in hand).

Now, if you're a rental house, maybe you have a claim. The rental house has a problem; who's going to rent an SDX900 when the HDX900 is available at the same price? But rental houses have always faced that. Would anyone seriously rent a PD150 anymore? The DVX killed the PD150 stone dead. But then again, couldn't you lay the same blame at Sony's feet -- how dare they introduce the FX1, when you're still paying off your PD150?

Times change. Things happen. Products improve. The DVX100A added a lot of features to the DVX100. Should they not have introduced the DVX100A? Should they not have introduced a DVX100B? Should they have instead said "oh, wait, Neil Rowe still has a DVX100, so we can't upgrade our models, sorry to all you new customers but there's lots of ways we can improve, we just have to wait until everyone who bought our old product has sold them on the used market first..." Sorry, but that would stifle innovation and would lead to all our detriment.

Things move fast and wooly now in the camcorder market. Sony can't launch a PD150 and then sit back and call that a current model four years later. You're lucky if you get a year out of your buy -- so, make it pay itself off, then start looking for the exits, because turnaround is quick now. Quicker than it's ever been. And it's only going to get quicker. You can complain about it, or embrace it and ride the wave.

The recent chaotic market pricing caused by Panasonic's uncontrolled gray import doesn't help, either.
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Which is part and parcel of why they're giving away an 8GB card now. Gray market can't match that.

Running occasional promotions for P2 cards, batteries, etc. is one thing. Panasonic's overtly cheapening a product because of a few months' slow sales is another thing completely.
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Do you have evidence of slow sales?

I'd say that if it's a reaction to anything, it's a reaction to the promise offered by the XHA1 and V1U, two products that look mighty tasty at their proposed price point. But even if it's something as simple as fighting gray market (as well as a way to pass Moore's Law of the 8GB card on to customers), either way, it's good for consumers and good for their market share.

Incidentally, I can think of no under-$10k HD camera model which has plummeted in cost, but maybe I missed something.
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Z1U came out at $5946, now it's selling for $4200 or so after rebate. HD100 came out at $6295, they were selling for $5000 *including* a free $1,000 IDX battery kit. HD1 came out at $4000, I recently saw 'em on Overstock.com for $599. XLH1 is the only one that hasn't moved in price, but it isn't moving off the shelves either; I'd be surprised if Canon's sold 500 of them worldwide. And in a large way you could look at the XHA1 as a "price drop" on the Canon XLH1 too; it's the same basic image and same recording format for 40% of the price (and if you don't think XHA1s are going to cannibalize the few XLH1 sales that would otherwise have happened, I don't think you're looking at the market realistically.)

Instead of continuously cheapening the value of the product I and many others recently purchassed, what Panasonic should do is introduce an AG-HVX150.
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And they will; look at the announcement of the HPX500.

Look, I bought a Sandisk Extreme III 1GB SD card for $100. Same card is now $57. Do I look at them as "devaluing my investment"? Of course not, I recognize that things cost what they cost when you buy 'em, and prices go down. It happens to memory cards, it happens to computers, it happens to camcorders. Every product you buy is "obsolete" a year later. When I bought my 1995 Nissan Maxima SE, it was a substantially better car in every imaginable way than the 1994 model -- a complete redesign, and it was a few thousand dollars less too. Were the 1994 buyers mad? I don't know -- should they have been? They bought the product they bought, at the price that made sense to them, and they can still be driving it eight years later.

In the end, you can fight the system, you can complain about the system, or you can recognize that this is the way that the system works. Embrace it and ride the curve. For my own part, I look at these new cameras as having a life span of six months. Within six months something will probably come along that either a) improves substantially on what you got, or b) costs a whole lot less. So as long as I can make enough off of it that it pays for itself within six months, why do I care? And I can always sell it on ebay for most of what I paid for it, and move on to the next newest-and-greatest thing, if that's what the market demands.
 
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In 1995 we bought Electric Image Animation Systems, a piece of 3D animation software, for $7,495.00. It create gorgeous 3D animations and had film resolution.

Of course, our work was broadcast.

A year later, EIAS became EI Broadcast for less than a grand.

Kinda makes you pretty annoyed. But it's the nature of the game.

A 4.2 Gigabyte Micronet array ran us $4,000 ten years ago.

The other day, I threw it in our garbage can. You can get a USB drive for that price.

It is nature of the business.
 
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