XH-A1 vs XL1/XL2 in SD

No. But I havent shot SD on the A1. The reason I say no is because I can shoot HD and downconvert and achieve a better image.
 
Hey Delaro, from what Elton said the A1 makes better SD than the XL2 (it has more latitude, among other things). Browse around and you'll find out all the details.
 
It comes down to an oversampled image. Probably the biggest difference is that technically you can downconvert HDV to 4:4:4 SD with the proper codec. (PhotoJPEG @100%, Animation codec, etc.)

4:4:4 SD or 4:1:1 SD to finesse for final delivery on DVD? I choose the former.
 
Many people say downconverted footage looks better than footage that originated on a SD camera, but how come every tv show I've seen shot on HDV - ICONOCLASTS (Sony Z1), LOVESRING INTERNATIONAL, and SOUTH OF NOWHERE (Canon H1), look very soft and are lacking in detail. Downloaded clips that are put to DVD also show this problem. In fact, the many TV shows shot with the Panasonic DVX look sharper. WHY? Are all these professionals doing something wrong? I've asked this before and no one ever gives me a satisfactory answer. I'm beginning to think all HDV downconverted footage looks soft, and has blurry motion, and colour bleeding. What's going on? I
 
Iconoclasts on Discovery HD looked ok to me...knowing what it came from.

The others don't look any different to me than what I would expect on super-bastardized, over-compressed SD satellite TV.

I just don't expect much from the SD broadcast channels anymore. I disagree that Lovespring and South of Nowhere look much different than what I've seen, say, on MTV that was shot with the DVX.

I had a piece air on the Sundance channel back in Jan. and none of the producers complained of the SD delivery I gave them from an HD master. It's just a matter of knowing how to properly downconvert.
 
Downconverting kind of depends on your NLE. I am sure there are some good programs designed for up/down converting, but I can't recommend any for you. I use EDIUS Broadcast 4.1 and I just put the footage on the timeline I want it to be, and EDIUS does the work for me in realtime. Or if I want to work in the proper project setting, I do that, and then just output to the format that I want.
 
It comes down to an oversampled image. Probably the biggest difference is that technically you can downconvert HDV to 4:4:4 SD with the proper codec. (PhotoJPEG @100%, Animation codec, etc.)

4:4:4 SD or 4:1:1 SD to finesse for final delivery on DVD? I choose the former.
Click to expand...

Elton, you want to explain how to do this?
 
The problem with downconverting is that the the 4luma pixels gonna be blended. Of course the chromapixel (2X2) is already blended from 4chroma samples. But that happend before the HDV compression. So 4uncompressed lumapixel will differ from the 4compressed lumapixels. That makes it hard to get real 4:4:4.
 
Well, you get real close to 4:4:4 SD starting with Canon's HDV because it supports HDV2 resolution, but it's not as important as the fact HDV downconverted to SD and exported to DVD (esp. in uncompressed workflow) looks better than results of SD workflow. So, unless someone needs to do quick do-it-sell-it-forget-it type of job in SD, shooting HD is wiser decision.
 
Haven't seen one so far, even with regular MiniDV media. Of course it could happen, just like someone could drop and step on P2 card or erase it by mistake. It's as likely as dropouts in HDV :)
 
I think a P2 error (forgetting to load one and then erasing it) would occur more than a dropout.

Can anybody explain how to down-convert HDV into 4:4:4 SD using the JPEG codec, as Elton mentioned?
 
Just drop an m2t file into MPEG Streamclip and export QT/PhotoJPEG @100% quality with "better downscaling" engaged, and choose a widescreen SD resolution of 854 x 480.

It will be a larger data rate in SD than DV, but the color resolution will be much higher.
 
I think we will have more problem with HDV, the more the tapemechanism gets old and dirty.

But my point is if you only going to DVD, shooting HDV can give you unwanted problems, like the codec breaking apart etc that wouldnt happen in DV mode.
 
MovieSwede said:
I think we will have more problem with HDV, the more the tapemechanism gets old and dirty.

But my point is if you only going to DVD, shooting HDV can give you unwanted problems, like the codec breaking apart etc that wouldnt happen in DV mode.
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I think anyone looking at an HDV camcorder should be considering Tapeless down the line.

They're at 699.99 for a Firstore FS-C at a legit retailer. By end of first-quarter next year, they should be down to about 599 or less. It's really worth the money to do this, as you'll save the life of your tape-deck and cut your workflow time in halves.
 
I think the choice between HDV or SD for DVD final really depends on how important the project is. If quality is top priority, I will choose HDV also for the sake of future formats (Blue Ray, HD DVD).

Tape mechanisms taken care properly won't disappoint even after years of intense use. I have not noticed any dropouts increase in my XL1 which I used for almost 4 years, for example. Same with XL2, plus as Kholi mentioned, HDD recorders are easily available.

Here is a simple example of what the game is about. First picture (on the left) is small crop of SD image captured with XH-A1, scaled up to show compression artifacts better.

Second image comes from HDV material downconverted in AfterEffects. Notice how smoother it looks. Again: it's only a small fragment of the full frame and I did it quickly with standard settings to show the idea.
 

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MovieSwede said:
But my point is if you only going to DVD, shooting HDV can give you unwanted problems, like the codec breaking apart etc that wouldnt happen in DV mode.
Click to expand...

Something that most don't realize is that when you do a good downconversion--even of HDV material that might have some artifacting--(fairly rare, especially with 24F)--well, the artifacts basically disappear in the SD frame.

MPEG Streamclip does a great job of downscaling, and it's free. About the only good thing you can say about DV is that it's frame discrete compression...but I'll take my chances with HDV.
 
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