MOCO system

luisbustamante

luisbustamante

Member
On another thread we started talinkg about Curt's moco system but we don't want to hijack that thread so here we can discuss it properly.

So, Curt what can you tell us about it?

Thanks
 
I just saw this... so sorry. I will put together some info and post later tonight. Glad you guys are interested :)
 
Ok, I swear I'll get to by tomorrow. I'm in the middle of moving from San Jose to Bubank, theres a few logistical issues involved ;)
 
Last edited:
Everything you ever wanted to know about Mirus

Everything you ever wanted to know about Mirus

OK, I finally have some time to go through this. I want to come out first and say that this isn't directly RED related but its along the same lines in terms of lowering the cost of high quality heavy featureset equipment for those who don't have multi million dollar budgets. Thanks to Jarred for having such an open forum to discuss stuff like this. If you aren't into reading alot of background info you can skip down to the ### mark for the meat :)

Some of this is from our patent application so its a little wordy...

First I think I'll give a quick tutorial on what Motion control (MOCO) is. The simplest explanation is that it allows you to accurately repeat a camera move many times to later be composited together and shown as though the moves were shot at the same time. Effects such as multiplying objects, making objects appear and disappear, and time-lapse can be easily achieved. Other benefits to using MOCO are that the positional data that the system uses can be exported and used to create CGI effects on top of the live action footage. Match moving can accomplish the same thing but it can sometimes be a costly process.

The mechanics and electronics required to do motion control can be quite complicated and as such the technology has been rather expensive. Typical pan-tilt MOCO heads rent out at around $2K/day and that doesn't include the operator that charges another $750-$1K. The cost involved in a MOCO shot is not always the most undesirable factor... the loss of control in the look of a shot can be a big turn off. When you add in setup time, egos, mistakes and complexity one can see why MOCO sometimes gets a bad rap.

Let me tell you guys about where we are coming from... A few years ago my brother wanted to do a shot that was impossible to do without motion control and we decided that it should be a simple matter of going out and renting a system.... wrong. We couldn't find any system on the market that was affordable to the average joe. We decided to start our company after that experience and put forward the lofty goal of making a whole line of cost effective motion control and cinema support equipment. Four years later we are finally on the brink of our goal... thanks to a lot of hard work.

On the motion control front we are aiming to make it as much of a commodity as the tripod and camera. In most TV shows and motion pictures the MOCO shots are usually noticeable because they stand out as being the most impressive shots in the show. They are also sometimes few and far between because of expense. Imagine if you could have a MOCO head on all your cameras... you could program your shots and just hit a button to do the shot again... you could take your pre-viz shots and dump them into the camera... you could do your plate shots on the east coast then send the files to the west coast where your actors can do the scene on a green screen... you would have every shots fully dynamic information for use in your favorite CG app. The benefits would be enormous and it would streamline many aspects of the movie-making process. Enter Mirus...

###

Physical specifications:
Length: 7 in. (17.8 cm)
Width: 7 in. (20.3 cm)
Height: 13.5 in. (35.5 cm)
Weight: 27 lbs (12 kg)

Power Supply: 48VDC

Range of Travel:
Pan: Continuous 360 deg.
Tilt: 180 deg.

Maximum Speeds:
PAN [deg/sec]: 270
TILT [deg/sec]: 180
Maximum camera weight [Pounds]: 35

Pass thru connections:
1) Power (+48V)
2) Power (48V GND)
3) Camera Power (+V 10A MAX)
4) Camera Power (GND 10A MAX)

These connections are totally configurable:
5) HD COMP Y+
6) HD COMP Y-
7) HD COMP Pr+
8) HD COMP Pr-
9) HD COMP Pb+
10) HD COMP Pb-

11) Firewire PAIR 1+
12) Firewire PAIR 1-
13) Firewire PAIR 2+
14) Firewire PAIR 2-


Features:
- User friendly operation, no technician needed
- Low cost of ownership…$15900 USD
- Fast and easy setup
- Patent pending compact and integrated design
- Mac/Windows/Linux OS compatible
- Control via laptop/desktop Ethernet connection
- No cable clutter - multiple feed thrus
- Browser based control software included free for life
- Real time remote control, time-lapse, and stop motion
- Pan and tilt programmability
- Pan/Tilt force sensing input bar included
- CGI import/export capabilities
- Full support for Inclino zoom, focus, and iris motors
- Mitchell mount and quick release plate included
- Camera adaptor plates will be available

Software:
- Web-based control. ( OS independent )
- Control multiple units simultaneously
- Store and retrieve 100’s of moves
- Key framing with automatic interpolation
- Motion scaling (future firmware release)
- Digital Filtering, add custom filters to alter motion profiles (future firmware release)
- Timeline control of all camera movements
- Import/export position and angle movements in various formats (3dsmax, Lightwave, Maya)
- I/O event control, trip point setup, and manual input when used with optional accessories
- Firmware upgrades via internet connection

We are doing our best to get it out asap. If the price tag seems steep take a look around to see the options available... motion control is a very expensive market. We've been in touch with a number of rental houses to get this out to the masses for those who can swing it. The $15K price point of is tight from a business perspective but our main goal is to put awesome tools in the hands of everyone, not just the studios. Hope you guys can appreciate how much typing this is :)


Edit: just attached images.. web interface, dimensions/specs, pan/tilt force sensing bar etc.
 

Attachments

  • diag.jpg
    diag.jpg
    29.4 KB · Views: 0
  • Mirus_mult.jpg
    Mirus_mult.jpg
    126.1 KB · Views: 0
  • IOpanel_top_down.jpg
    IOpanel_top_down.jpg
    269.8 KB · Views: 0
  • interface.jpg
    interface.jpg
    129.8 KB · Views: 0
  • closeup_cap.jpg
    closeup_cap.jpg
    187.2 KB · Views: 0
  • 100_0276.jpg
    100_0276.jpg
    168.9 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
Sounds very impressive Curt, now I just need to think up enough shots to justify buying one when RedOne ships :)
 
Homer - im sure you can think of plenty of shots :) Heres a couple quickies we did awhile back... these are only test shots....
timelapse
trucks
 
Last edited:
Haha, I'm in the UK Curt so it's only just gone midday, the fact I post about 2am often enough shouldn't be overlooked though :). Moco is not something I've had the privilege of working with before Curt, but certainly the pricetag means its far more viable than previously.

Infact I'm a complete novice, looking at the new photographs, would this entirely do away with a fluid tripod head and the base attach to a tripod? and if you controlled the movement on the camera/moco directly does this then record those movements and play it back at a click of the remote/laptop? It's shameful to have to ask such basic questions sometimes but I really don't understand it enough and I'm sure there are others who need educating as to how it would work.

Understanding the benefits is a completely different thing to understand how it works! :)
 
Glad you brought that up Homer... I'm an engineer so I always go for the technical side.. The head is a replacement for the tripod head.. all you need is the sticks. The system has a few different methods for encoding the movement. The first and perhaps the easiest is using the pan/tilt bar. You hook the bar up to the head, move it around, and it will mimic a normal tripod head. You can pan and tilt and you'd be hard pressed to notice the difference. When you are ready to record a shot its as easy as hitting the record button... moving the head around... and then pressing stop. Hit replay and it will do the same shot just as you recorded it.

For those people who are more tech savvy theres the web interface. You can import data or generate a move by using your mouse and a series of keyframes. Tell the unit to process the data and out pops a motion profile that will pass through all the points you asked it to. The web interface has a database management system that lets you track your shots and store/retrieve data.

The system can be operated on a closed ethernet network and multiple units can be controlled from the same computer. We are working on getting the code done so that multiple units can be started/stopped at the same time.

One other thing I forgot to mention... we have i/o ports available to trigger external devices and cameras for doing timelapse shots. With the timelapse tool you can record what your shot will look like in realtime then tell mirus how long you want to "stretch" the shot. When the timelapse shot is complete you can then shoot the same motion in realtime against a green screen and composite live action against timelapse for a cool effect.
 
we have had a custombuilt motioncontrol from 94-97 and since then, we are looking for a new one. you can certainly add us to your interested buyer list.
 
Hi Curt,

very interesting things you´re working at.
The moco-system alone is a high achievement, but then there´s your LCS - looking forward for more...
I think it´s the totally right time for your inventions, with cameras like Red, SI, Truecolorspace ( and even the 416, 235, penelope ) and the likes at the near horizon or already available.
But please upload these infos to your website soon - I´m sure that it´s not only me frequently checking it out for updates.

Regards,

Priyesh
 
Thanks guys.. the new website is slated for Mid-Jan. I'll be sure to let everyone know when its up. Make sure you goto NAB 07 in vegas :)
 
BTW, do you have a "Arrimotion" - like blooplight ?
That´s to sync different takes visually, what about Timecode i/o?
 
The timeline in the web interface will allow you to assign a I/O keyframe so at X frames into the shot it will toggle an external I/O line. We will have a bloop light ready when we start shipping (Early 2nd QTR 07). Time code is a little trickier to implement... I suppose we could rig up a serial timecode to the system and listen on a port. I'd much rather have it integrated though since we are going for the compact, clean look.
 
Great stuff Curt, and thanks for not making me sound stupid lol! I come from the mind set that if this could be used instead of forking out on a fluid head then the pricetag would be even better. Alot of the Ronford, Cartoni and Oconnor's of this world cost almost as much and in some cases more, and of course they do not have the advantage of Moco, now I understand they have their place and people like working with what they know but personally I'm a big gadget type and if your system is as fluid or even close to then I'd be more inclined to go that route and learn the Moco side of it as well.

Do you plan on allowing this to be linked up to the motor system so that the entire lot could be controlled as one. Logistically that seems to me to be quite a tricky thing to do but replicating a shot from the one application for both focus, zoom, iris and position combined would be incredible.

Also do you have suggestions/recommendations for tripods you think will work well with your system? At 12kg I imagine it'll want to be a pretty strong one :)
 
Homer.. yup.. our system is basically 5 axis (pan, tilt, zoom, focus, iris). All axis are captured at once or seperatly. You could record the pan and tilt then play it back and do the zoom, focus, or iris if the situation calls for it. The remote that is going to ship with Inclino (the FCS) will work with Mirus such that you can have one person do the pan & tilt and the other doing the ZFI.

For the tripods... hmm. Vinten? That's what we've used in the past. They are a little expensive though. We would be more than willing to make affordable tripods but with the size of our company we need to choose our battles... at least for now :)
 
Hi Curt!

I'm also new to the Motion Control world.
I would appreciate information about where to find more examples of where motion control has been used in good ways.

I'm also looking forward to your website going live soon! : )

/Marcus
 
Curt,

Your project looks fantastic... I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. I think that once people see what can be accomplished with such a system they're going to be hungry for it - and you're right, the price point of nearly all the other systems is far beyond what most of us can afford to own. Very cool; I look forward to seeing how it develops.
 
Looking very nice! For some reason when talking about motion control I'm always thinking about a motion controlled crane and not tripod head. Is this just me? :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top