35mm Still, S35 Cine, and S16mm Cine Dimensions

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Y.Goh

Active member
Sorry for not knowing the exact dimensions of Still-35mm and Cine-S35mm, could anybody please list the dimensions for each of their dimensions?

Could I safely say that Cine-35mm is the same as Still-APS?
 
I wish I could tell you right off the top of my head, but I'm in the same boat as far as still-to-cinema lens conversions go. But hey, we're all learning one thing or another with this camera development. However, from what I vaguely remember, there shouldn't be too much difference except for the technical things like breathing and different focusing methods and whatnot.

All I can tell you is to look through the RED Lens thread, wherever that went to, and this one:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=66640

There should be an answer to your question and many more.
 
Y.Goh said:
Sorry for not knowing the exact dimensions of Still-35mm and Cine-S35mm, could anybody please list the dimensions for each of their dimensions?

Could I safely say that Cine-35mm is the same as Still-APS?
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Hi,

S35 max size 24 x 18
S35 Projected area is 23.5 x 12.7 for 1:1.85
N35 Camera apeture 22 x 16
N35 Projected area 22 x 11.9 for 1:1.85

Still is I beleive 36 x 24 (could be wrong)

Nikon DSLR is close to S35 (D50,D70,D80,D200)

Stephen
 
A still camera 35mm frame is 36mm x 24mm;
S35mm/Red 4.5k is 24.4mm x 13.7mm;
Red 4k is 22.2mm x 12.6mm;
film APS cameras are 30.2mm x 16.7mm;
non full frame DSLRs vary, eg my Canon EOS 300d has a 22.7mm x 15.1mm sensor;
Other APS-C digitals have similar dimensions.

So the Canon EOS 300d is about the same width of sensor as Red in 4k mode, but not the same aspect ratio.

Hope this helps.

Nick
 
Thank you Nick....couldn't have ask for more accurate lists. That's surprising, why did Cine shooters call it 35mm or full-format even if the film is not exactly or even close to the still-35mm?
 
Y.Goh said:
Thank you Nick....couldn't have ask for more accurate lists. That's surprising, why did Cine shooters call it 35mm or full-format even if the film is not exactly or even close to the still-35mm?
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Hi,

Film runs top to bottom in a 35mm movie camera.
A Vistavision camera runs left to right like a Nikon.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Film runs top to bottom in a 35mm movie camera.
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So the dimension of the gate of a cine film camera is 35mm in height or diagonal, but the film itself is not 35mm in dimensions, am I understanding you correctly?
Stephen Williams said:
A Vistavision camera runs left to right like a Nikon.
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I thought that Nikon mechanical shutter is vertical? or are you refering to the film movement?

Thank you for the info
 
Y.Goh said:
So the dimension of the gate of a cine film camera is 35mm in height or diagonal, but the film itself is not 35mm in dimensions, am I understanding you correctly?
I thought that Nikon mechanical shutter is vertical? or are you refering to the film movement?

Thank you for the info
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Hi,

FWIW 35mm film is not exactly 35mm in any case, it's an imperial size!
S35 24 x 18 is width x height.

I am refering to film movement. Vista Vision is 8 perf.

Stephen
 
35mm film is so called because the overall width of the film, including sprocket holes is 35mm. Still cameras run the film horizontaly, whereas on a movie camera the film passes vertically through the gate.

S35 uses effectively what is the height of the still camera frame as the frame width, hence the similarity of the W dimension of one with the H dimension of the other. Standard 35mm movie film has less width, as space is left at the edge for the sound-track.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35mm and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/135_film for more info.

Nick
 
Thanks again Stephen. In digital cine cameras, running time wouldn't matter if the sensor active area was made as large as the 35mm still-photography cameras (>S35mm cine sensor size), since we are not using film roll in digital. I wonder what would be the trade-offs of having cine camera's sensor made the same size as 35mm still-cameras?
After all it's really the same amount of data if resolution is kept the same (4K that is), but larger dynamic range since each pixel could be increase to 7x7 microns (from 5.4x5.4 microns). Do you think it's because of the existing PL mount lenses and other S35mm/35mm cine film cameras existing out there in the market, therefore it wouldn't be practical to have larger sensor? Vignetting, may be?
 
Y.Goh said:
Thanks again Stephen. In digital cine cameras, running time wouldn't matter if the sensor active area was made as large as the 35mm still-photography cameras (>S35mm cine sensor size), since we are not using film roll in digital. I wonder what would be the trade-offs of having cine camera's sensor made the same size as 35mm still-cameras?
After all it's really the same amount of data if resolution is kept the same (4K that is), but larger dynamic range since each pixel could be increase to 7x7 microns (from 5.4x5.4 microns). Do you think it's because of the existing PL mount lenses and other S35mm/35mm cine film cameras existing out there in the market, therefore it wouldn't be practical to have larger sensor? Vignetting, may be?
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Hi,

Existing S35mm lenses won't cover, so unless you want to rebuild still camera lenses you will have a problem. The attraction of S35mm is the great selection of lenses made by Zeiss,Cooke etc.

The biggest reason to avoid 65mm is lack of lens choice.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Existing S35mm lenses won't cover, so unless you want to rebuild still camera lenses you will have a problem. The attraction of S35mm is the great selection of lenses made by Zeiss,Cooke etc.
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1.) You mean it won't cover the sensor and get vignetting?

2.) Why rebuild, I thought there are many 35mm still-camera lenses out there?
 
Y.Goh said:
1.) You mean it won't cover the sensor and get vignetting?

2.) Why rebuild, I thought there are many 35mm still-camera lenses out there?
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Hi,

Yes, lenses are designed to cover a fairly exact size, as extra light bouncing about about can cause problems. Sometimes using 35mm on a 16mm camera results in flares.

Still lenses are not any use for focus pulling. To rebuild a still's lens properly for motion picture use expect to pay $3-6000 per lens.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Still lenses are not any use for focus pulling. To rebuild a still's lens properly for motion picture use expect to pay $3-6000 per lens.
Click to expand...

Am I wrong, or isnt't that only true for zooms. Primes would be fine, no?
 
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