Which follow focus for the RED?

Simply stated, I'm arguing that you're introducing a compromise to an otherwise elegant imaging system. From a design standpoint, nothing has been left to chance - until... well, you know.

It's a matter of choice and we all know that enterprising independent filmmakers can make almost anything work!

e
 
overlandfilms said:
Simply stated, I'm arguing that you're introducing a compromise to an otherwise elegant imaging system.
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Thats where I disagree. I don't think you are compromising the imaging, you are limiting your creative choices operationally. There are many films that have had some shots produced using still camera lenses, an obvious example being Tim Burtons Corpse Bride shot using Nikon still lenses. The images on that film look fabulous.

Martin
 
overlandfilms said:
Simply stated, I'm arguing that you're introducing a compromise to an otherwise elegant imaging system.
e
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Thanks for the rundown on your choices overlandfilms. On the last shoot I did; I let the AC choose the follow focus, since we (I co-produced/directed) rented everything. As long as it fits within the parameters of the shoot, then I'm fine with it. The difference being today, that the whole production package will be serving a wider array of needs.

As to the above statement ? I agree completely. But, as Jim mentioned, your wallet and willingness too compromise will drive a lot of the choices that RED will engender... I think you and muttondraw are on the same page (how often do you hear that ?:) ), but he's talking about designing a shoot around the limitations (correct me if I misinterpreted).

One thing is certain. Testing all the permutations and field applications will be a heck of a fun time :beer:


RED # rebel with a clue
 
Brook Willard said:
Well, hell, if we're dreaming, I might as well come up with dream features:
....

I could go on all day with fun little features, but it's a pipe-dream. Who wants to make the remote focus device of my dreams? :laugh:
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Brook... my company is making that system right now... Look for it by NAB 07. BTW, we have some features that would make your head spin.
 
CVB said:
Brook... my company is making that system right now... Look for it by NAB 07. BTW, we have some features that would make your head spin.
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Ooo, I love living in a small world. I'll be at NAB'07, I may have to add this booth to my list. Is it going to cost more than a RED ONE in the first place though? :laugh: :)
 
Brook Willard said:
Is it going to cost more than a RED ONE in the first place though? :laugh: :)
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Nope - $5500. Comes with three smart motors, breakout box w/wifi transceiver, remote pendant, and all cables. I made a rendering awhile back of what they kinda look like: rendering
Like RED, we are constantly changing things and have since gone through two more revisions to the design. The motors have full closed loop motion control so you can tell it to goto a preset position with a given speed and easing. The control pendant is 802.11b wifi so you never have to worry about setting channels or getting cross talk. The other benefit is that you can use a PDA or laptop to wirelessly control all three motors at the same time. Our software is all web-based so no installation is necessary - just point your web browser to the ip address of the breakout box and you get a nifty interface to change all the settings and tweak lens data.
The remote is as small as a cell phone and has the ability to control the system up to 300' away, and since its solid state there aren't any moving parts.

When we finalize a few more details we would really like to post some pics and get some feedback. I love the fact that Jim is so open with his design... its a great way to ensure a product that doesn't miss its mark.
 
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Hey Brook, Curt seems to be tackling another sector of the hi-end market-- motion control (for the masses), wireless lens controllers and all the cool things that go with it. If you are at NAB'07, you should do yourself the favor and check it all out. I mean the unit on his website has that Chris Cunningham "All is full of love" aesthetic, how cool is that!

Cheers,

edit* Oh well Curts on it. ;-)
 
Dumb question:

We've all seen the RED-RAILS - if an operator was shooting solo with the shoulder mount (ENG style) would it be better to pull focus directly off the lens or off a follow-focus? Somehow I think your left hand would need to hold onto something solid (like the lens) in order to keep the camera safely balanced.
 
Ive seen early versions of what Curts been working on and its pretty impressive stuff... something that will blow alot of people away.

And Boothba.. as for hand holding.. to each his own, some people prefer the hand on the lens.. but if your on rods the rods basically become an offshoot of the lens, so both are relatively stable. still.. holding on to a follow focus doenst really give much support, and probably isnt the safest thing to do.
 
CVB said:
Brook... my company is making that system right now... Look for it by NAB 07. BTW, we have some features that would make your head spin.
Click to expand...
CVB said:
Nope - $5500. Comes with three smart motors, breakout box w/wifi transceiver, remote pendant, and all cables. I made a rendering awhile back of what they kinda look like: rendering
Like RED, we are constantly changing things and have since gone through two more revisions to the design. The motors have full closed loop motion control so you can tell it to goto a preset position with a given speed and easing. The control pendant is 802.11b wifi so you never have to worry about setting channels or getting cross talk. The other benefit is that you can use a PDA or laptop to wirelessly control all three motors at the same time. Our software is all web-based so no installation is necessary - just point your web browser to the ip address of the breakout box and you get a nifty interface to change all the settings and tweak lens data.
The remote is as small as a cell phone and has the ability to control the system up to 300' away, and since its solid state there aren't any moving parts.

When we finalize a few more details we would really like to post some pics and get some feedback. I love the fact that Jim is so open with his design... its a great way to ensure a product that doesn't miss its mark.
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Following my prior interest that you already know (and first of all, :dankk2: for your PM), I'd like to know if there is any estimated number for its weight?

Here is some info related too (courtesy of Haakon & Mikko):
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=537160&postcount=11
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.php?p=546870&postcount=36

Circa $3,600 for only one purpose vs. $5,500 for two controls (focus + manual aperture), or am I wrong? Plus, for both solutions: cine + still photography lenses pending of the coupled devices, right?

Anyway, I'd like to use it with any sort of light stabilizer like the mid Glidecam series and the target would be up to 10lbs (RED 7lbs + RED drive -- I don't know if it is 7lbs included or not + lightweight still lens + such remote control coupled to the respective control devices) -- will it be possible?
 
Emanuel said:
I'd like to know if there is any estimated number for its weight?
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The weight is TBD. I'd say its at least on par with other lens motor systems, if not lighter. We are making these affordable and as such the enclosures will be made from high-impact strength Nylon or a derivative thereof.

Emanuel said:
Circa $3,600 for only one purpose vs. $5,500 for two controls (focus + manual aperture), or am I wrong? Plus, for both solutions: cine + still photography lenses pending of the coupled devices, right?
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Close. We will be providing 3 motors (Zoom, Focus, & Iris). You can control any two of the motors at one time with the remote. You can save numerous setpoints for all three motors and press one button to move all of them to a predefined position. For instance.... say you're in a dark room and you're running the zoom/focus.. as soon as you exit a doorway into the sunlight you could press one button to have the iris goto a predefined position.

Keep in mind that our system is MOTION CONTROL, not remote control (Although you can remotely control them just like any other focus system). We developed these units to be used in conjunction with our moco head - releasing them as standalone units is just a bonus.

The other systems that you mentioned (Bartech & Heden) are extremely expensive solutions. Heden makes an awesome motor but it upwards of $2500 for one motor. Most of the systems that I've seen, which have 1/2 the functionality we are going to offer, run close to $15K (USD)

Emanuel said:
Anyway, I'd like to use it with any sort of light stabilizer like the low Glidecam series and the target would be 10lbs (RED 7lbs + RED drive -- I don't know if it is 7lbs included or not + lightweight still lens + such device) -- will it be possible?
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Probably... we haven't looked into that yet but you never know...
 
:dankk2: Curt for the quick answer.

If it will rock -- I believe so, I'll be your customer (count on that!)

When you're saying it is motion control (and not only remote control) I think you want mean what I found following your posts and now this last one: it will include the control devices (zoom, focus & iris).

CVB said:
Emanuel said:
Anyway, I'd like to use it with any sort of light stabilizer like the low Glidecam series and the target would be 10lbs (RED 7lbs + RED drive -- I don't know if it is 7lbs included or not + lightweight still lens + such device) -- will it be possible?
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Probably... we haven't looked into that yet but you never know...
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It would be (It will be -- I expect) a setup dream!

Availability? RED delivery?
 
When I say motion control I mean that it has closed loop feedback and can position itself to a given point within a fraction of a degree. So if you focus on something 10 feet away and record the position it will be able to move back to that exact position at any time. True motion control tracks the position of the motor as it is moving as well. Our system has full control of the position, velocity, and acceleration of the lens at all times. You could make custom motion profiles that change the way the motors respond to your input so that the motors are quick & snappy or slow & damped. In a stand alone system like this its hard to take full advantage of what motion control can offer (record and playback motion profiles) but we're trying to push the boundaries on cost and performance.

BTW... The system we are making should be available for NAB 07. We will be taking orders then or sooner.
Hope Jarred doesn't get mad that this thread has been hijacked.
 
CVB said:
When I say motion control I mean that it has closed loop feedback and can position itself to a given point within a fraction of a degree. So if you focus on something 10 feet away and record the position it will be able to move back to that exact position at any time. True motion control tracks the position of the motor as it is moving as well. Our system has full control of the position, velocity, and acceleration of the lens at all times. You could make custom motion profiles that change the way the motors respond to your input so that the motors are quick & snappy or slow & damped. In a stand alone system like this its hard to take full advantage of what motion control can offer (record and playback motion profiles) but we're trying to push the boundaries on cost and performance.

BTW... The system we are making should be available for NAB 07. We will be taking orders then or sooner.
Hope Jarred doesn't get mad that this thread has been hijacked.
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I believe Jarred wants the best for his 'customers', I mean us, so he will probably be glad with this initiative.

I meant something around there is a difference between your full offer vs. the only remote control option to be coupled to the respective control devices... That is: yours is an all-in-one product and this will be a happiness for all of your potential customers. My only one concern is the weight but I will count on your skills.

I subscribe the Brook's enthusiasm.
 
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Brook Willard said:
I'm really excited for this focus device... Does your company have any other solutions up its sleeve?
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We have one really big one relating to the focus system... I really want to spill the beans but gotta bite my lip :) As soon as we work out all the kinks I'll let you guys in on it.

Needless to say we are planning on making a whole suite of equipment that is both affordable and jaw-dropping crazy cool. Our concentration is initially on affordable and easy to use motion control products... our moco head on our home page is going to be about $15K vs. the typical $50-75K for a pan-tilt solution.

edit: Emanual.. thanks for the kudos. What lens motor weight would make you happy?
 
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D_and_G said:
but he's talking about designing a shoot around the limitations (correct me if I misinterpreted).
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Spot on D_and_G. And to some degree we are always doing this because there are always limitations. I agree with Overlandfilms that it is better to use Cinematography lenses if possible, but if you can't afford it there is no need to think the images on screen are going to look rough.

Martin
 
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