vitaluminosa
Active member
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FX1 or XL1?
- Thread starter vitaluminosa
- Start date
reflex
Well-known member
Are you planning to 'film out' after production is complete? the higher res of the FX1 would work out better there.
I have an FX1 and CF24 along with my lens adapter makes some nice images.... But have you thought about the H1? I think there you get 24p HD, XLR inputs, and the ability to use different lenses. I think they are about 4000.00 right now.
Just another option.
I have an FX1 and CF24 along with my lens adapter makes some nice images.... But have you thought about the H1? I think there you get 24p HD, XLR inputs, and the ability to use different lenses. I think they are about 4000.00 right now.
Just another option.
I haven't tried the XL-1 although I did have a chance to work with an XL-1S, and I hated it. If the two cameras are anything alike then you can expect a slippery focus ring, poor autofocus and no LCD screen, which annoys me the most.
Hey reflex, I've never really used CF24 on the FX1, what is your opinion of it?
Hey reflex, I've never really used CF24 on the FX1, what is your opinion of it?
reflex
Well-known member
Its not 'rock sold 24p' but it gives a good emulation of the motion. People say that its less resolution than using interlaced mode. (60i) and it is because of how it works but its not something that you can notice. I guess it works the same as slow shutter speed. Every 5 frames there is a pattern. 1,2 and 3 are the faux progressive frames where they are not interlaced , and 4 and 5 are interlaced frames. It doesn't work like a true progressive camera where all the frames are full res and full frame.
But on the other hand I'm sure you've seen the intelaced trick of taking 60i footage and making really good slow mo to 24p by taking the 1/2 fields and making a whole frame out of each. That doens't look low res.
All I know is that I'd MUCH rather use that mode all the time then stick with full interlaced mode. The CF 24 mode definitely gives the footage a different look.
I noticed the biggest difference when you combine CF24, with a nice 35mm adapter and post work (like magic bullet even ) The results are very nice. In fact I just was brought on as a cinematographer for a short film being shot here in chicago and i'm going to use that mode.
If you're shooting something and eventually planning a film out/ transfer then you should use 60i mode, since it will convert the best. I dont most people could tell the difference between cf24 and 24p. Except people that are technical and have dealt with both.
I think its what 'level' youre on and what youre final output will be. If you are going to film out, you'd wanna use either real 24p or 60i. With broadcast TV and shows like CSI and 24 and Law and Order, you'd use 24p.
For lower level stuff that you need ' that look ' for, like short films or local commercials, or events etc... its a great tool to use.
The only thing I have online for an example is some stuff that I ran out and shot when I first got the camera.
right click , save as
http://www.black-list.cc/miscvideos/outdoorsHD.wmv
1440 x 1080
CF24 (deinterlaced in premiere pro 2.0)
i think shutter speed about 100 or 120
aprox 100MB
But on the other hand I'm sure you've seen the intelaced trick of taking 60i footage and making really good slow mo to 24p by taking the 1/2 fields and making a whole frame out of each. That doens't look low res.
All I know is that I'd MUCH rather use that mode all the time then stick with full interlaced mode. The CF 24 mode definitely gives the footage a different look.
I noticed the biggest difference when you combine CF24, with a nice 35mm adapter and post work (like magic bullet even ) The results are very nice. In fact I just was brought on as a cinematographer for a short film being shot here in chicago and i'm going to use that mode.
If you're shooting something and eventually planning a film out/ transfer then you should use 60i mode, since it will convert the best. I dont most people could tell the difference between cf24 and 24p. Except people that are technical and have dealt with both.
I think its what 'level' youre on and what youre final output will be. If you are going to film out, you'd wanna use either real 24p or 60i. With broadcast TV and shows like CSI and 24 and Law and Order, you'd use 24p.
For lower level stuff that you need ' that look ' for, like short films or local commercials, or events etc... its a great tool to use.
The only thing I have online for an example is some stuff that I ran out and shot when I first got the camera.
right click , save as
http://www.black-list.cc/miscvideos/outdoorsHD.wmv
1440 x 1080
CF24 (deinterlaced in premiere pro 2.0)
i think shutter speed about 100 or 120
aprox 100MB
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ecking
Veteran
FX1 hands down, the XL1 is like a six year old camera. In SD mode on the fx1 probably beats the original XL1 and no doubt down converting te FX1's HD will beat the XL1.
Almos always:
more resolution = more better.
Look up between here and dvinfo how to transfer the FX1's HD into 24p and down convert it into a beautiful 24p SD DVD.
Here's a thread to get you started:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59664
Almos always:
more resolution = more better.
Look up between here and dvinfo how to transfer the FX1's HD into 24p and down convert it into a beautiful 24p SD DVD.
Here's a thread to get you started:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=59664
reflex
Well-known member
AND if you do go with the FX1, since they are discontinued now, I would go with B&H since they are reputable and you can get one used through them for about 2695.00. I bought mine on a special for about 2999.00. Now new they are at about 3150.00 Still not a bad price for the quality of the camera.
the focus ring is a little touchy, but not too too bad. flip out lcd is really nice, highest resolution of any on the market. controls are well laid out.
the focus ring is a little touchy, but not too too bad. flip out lcd is really nice, highest resolution of any on the market. controls are well laid out.
hawkmankt
Active member
I'd wait for the new Sony camera for sure, but I'd pick the FX1 out of these two simply because you have the ability to shoot HDV and you could shoot standard def if you want to.
I shoot it all in HDV and downconvert to edit and finish since no client needs HD quality just yet.
I shoot it all in HDV and downconvert to edit and finish since no client needs HD quality just yet.
DavidBeier
Veteran
What are you trying to shoot? If you want to do news, event shooting, and documentary stuff then the FX1's with it's great low light performance is fine. Narrative 24p stuff however doesn't quite cut it. The difference is quite visible between realy 24p and the FX1's fake 24p that costs you resolution. It also lacks many of the nice film gammas of other cameras and doesn't even have an XLR input; two more things that really make it poorly suited for narrative filmmaking.
If you want to do narrative stuff but still want cheaper prices, it really would behoove you to wait perhaps for the Canon A1 or Sony V1.
If you want to do narrative stuff but still want cheaper prices, it really would behoove you to wait perhaps for the Canon A1 or Sony V1.
I haven't used the FX1, but I do own a Z1, and it's way ahead of the XL1 in almost every respect: even downconverted SD footage looks much better. Picture-wise there's little difference between the Z1 and FX1, the former just has a few more image-processing options (e.g. black stretch).
About the only limitation is that you can't use interchangeable lenses without cutting the camera up or sticking on a 35mm adapter, and the HDV compression introduces annoying artifacts at times (e.g. noise on flat-painted walls after color correction).
About the only limitation is that you can't use interchangeable lenses without cutting the camera up or sticking on a 35mm adapter, and the HDV compression introduces annoying artifacts at times (e.g. noise on flat-painted walls after color correction).
.
reflex
Well-known member
Well its pretty simple actually. I'm using Premiere Pro 2.0 (and was using 1.0 for quite a while and it works the same) Versions of Premiere before pro aren't as great IMO, so if you're using 6.x or earlier deinterlacing should probably be done by some other means, since I'm not sure how well those versions can do it.
One way to deinterlace something, if you need to deinterlace a specific clip or something is to use the Field Options menu.
Just right click on your clip and select Field Options... from that menu
Then from the menu that pops up, Choose 'Always Deinterlace' by selecting the button and hitting Ok.
Normally though, you wanna deinterlace at final export. You can do this one of two ways, depending on the export method.
If you're using Adobe Media Encoder:
1. Make sure your timeline is active and select from the drop down menu: File, Adobe Media Encoder.
2. Then you will see a panel where you can set up how you want your video encoded.
3. At the top left corner under the Output tab, you want to check that small box that says Deinterlace
If you're planning on using the Export Movie method (maybe you wanna export uncompressed to have another program do your encoding)...
1. Select File, Export, Movie...
2. Next you will see a dialogue box where you can name your file pick a specific location to save the file. At the bottom right under 'save' and 'cancel' you see the little button ' Settings ' Click that.
3. Finally, in your settings panel, on the left hand side select 'Keyframe and Rendering'. Then on the right side there, you can check the 'Deinterlace Video Footage' box. This will gray out the Fields drop down menu, since deinterlacing will automatically make the footage progressive/whole frames/no fields.
Deinterlacing with PPro 2.0 (or any pro version for that matter) does an amazing job and keeping the clarity and resolution. I've never been unpleased with something that i've deinterlaces from the NLE. Again earlier versions make not do as good a job so that you will have to test out. But if you're working with HDV, pro 2.0 is the only version that supports that. ( i think 1.5 will with a patch though too )
hope this helped. :thumbsup:
One way to deinterlace something, if you need to deinterlace a specific clip or something is to use the Field Options menu.
Just right click on your clip and select Field Options... from that menu
Then from the menu that pops up, Choose 'Always Deinterlace' by selecting the button and hitting Ok.
Normally though, you wanna deinterlace at final export. You can do this one of two ways, depending on the export method.
If you're using Adobe Media Encoder:
1. Make sure your timeline is active and select from the drop down menu: File, Adobe Media Encoder.
2. Then you will see a panel where you can set up how you want your video encoded.
3. At the top left corner under the Output tab, you want to check that small box that says Deinterlace
If you're planning on using the Export Movie method (maybe you wanna export uncompressed to have another program do your encoding)...
1. Select File, Export, Movie...
2. Next you will see a dialogue box where you can name your file pick a specific location to save the file. At the bottom right under 'save' and 'cancel' you see the little button ' Settings ' Click that.
3. Finally, in your settings panel, on the left hand side select 'Keyframe and Rendering'. Then on the right side there, you can check the 'Deinterlace Video Footage' box. This will gray out the Fields drop down menu, since deinterlacing will automatically make the footage progressive/whole frames/no fields.
Deinterlacing with PPro 2.0 (or any pro version for that matter) does an amazing job and keeping the clarity and resolution. I've never been unpleased with something that i've deinterlaces from the NLE. Again earlier versions make not do as good a job so that you will have to test out. But if you're working with HDV, pro 2.0 is the only version that supports that. ( i think 1.5 will with a patch though too )
hope this helped. :thumbsup:
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I have version PP 2.0 actually and I tried your method without much sucess. I actually wasn't using the Cineframe mode at all, only regular 60i. The thing is editing HDV in the preview window I can see serious interlacing "teeth." They're so bad that at certain points the image was seriously distorted. Turning on "always deinterlaced" have absolutely no effect. It's much better when I exported the video out but this drives me crazy sometimes.
Thanks for suggestion on how to export though! I'll give it a try next time.
Thanks for suggestion on how to export though! I'll give it a try next time.