Any need for P2 card with firestore upgrade ?

I found this in the HVX first look article. "The Panasonic offers miniDV tape for recording, and P2 memory cards for high-def (and standard-def DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50) recording. It can also transfer files from the P2 card directly to an off-the-shelf USB 2.0 external hard disk, or to a potentially-forthcoming FireStore type of device."

Is anyone offloading files from the P2's to an external HD?
 
WhiteMonkey said:
I found this in the HVX first look article. "The Panasonic offers miniDV tape for recording, and P2 memory cards for high-def (and standard-def DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50) recording. It can also transfer files from the P2 card directly to an off-the-shelf USB 2.0 external hard disk, or to a potentially-forthcoming FireStore type of device."

Is anyone offloading files from the P2's to an external HD?
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I don't think many are for one good reason. The buses aren't powered on the HVX. For example, I'd have to lug around a power supply (or some sort of external power source) to offload straight to a external hard drive. All of the sudden a laptop seems like a simpler and more convenient option, that can do much more stuff for you in the field as well.

I'm not saying nobody offloads straight to an external drive from the HVX, but I have noticed that most people don't use this method, and I think the lack of powered bus is the reason why.
 
Thanks, I hadn't considered that. I'm thinking, with my one or two man crew, and 12 minutes takes, I'm better off with a Firestore for now. I'll wait to use the P2 tech when the cards grow in size and come down in price. I never wanted to work in HDV anyway, and the HVX is a real shooters camera.
 
Isn't the 24pn recording to the FS100 limited do to the firewire bus being disabled by the HVX in native mode.
I realize that Firestore has upgraded to support it, but had panasonic updated to enable the firewire port while in native mode?
 
That's not how it works (or will work -- the 3.0 firmware isn't out yet).

The HVX200 must still be set to a non-native recording mode, or no data goes out the DV port. The FS-100 will save only the flagged frames to disk, i.e. it will do the pulldown as the data is received from the camera.
 
The FS-100 will record every single mode with full metadata the HVX-200 will do. Full P2 files with all the metadata. Overcranked, undercranked, progressive, interlaces, etc.

The soon to be released 3.0 firmware update will allow it to do more. Such as:

Configure itself to the camera's shooting mode automatically
Record in QuickTime DVCPRO-HD to avoid the translation in FCP
Strip away for pulldown on the fly to mimic the exact same "Native" rate files that are recorded to a P2 card
So much more, it's such a killer machine. Lightweight, sturdy, reliable, customer service out of this world. I don't ever shoot without mine

And I'm doing a MAJOR documentary in some very harsh conditions. The FS-100 holds up, period.

The 3.0 update to the FS-100 will allow the unit to record with pulldown on the fly. Thus, record the same 24fps native file you'd get on a P2 card.

It still has a couple of weeks before it's release. But then, how long does the CinePorter have to be released? And what will it's benefits be?

I'm only thinking out loud, wondering what other folks are actually experencing in their productions...
 
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We've now shot 12 commercials using the HVX/Firestore combination. We've found it to be rock solid. Reading these forums before I purchased the Firestore did make me quite paranoid about firewire connectors, right angles, left angles, wrong angles, vibration - we just bought the standard kit - with regular firewire cable - and its never dropped a frame.

We've gaffer-taped the firestore under the camera for 30 ft jib moves, placed it in a submerged (and empty) aquarium to get underwater shots, used it on glidecam rigs and this thursday, we'll be flying it on a cable for a 200' run over a traffic intersection.

The FS100 has moved our studio to shooting almost exclusively HD - The only hiccup has been finding a workable editing system that can ingest DVCPROHD and work in realtime. We've settled on canopus and mac pro FC suites. Quite a step up from our PD150 and Videotoaster days. I dont think I could ever shoot greenscreen in SD ever again! Sssoo clean!
 
Firestore just seems to ruin such a sleek and sweet camera with lumping on such a brick... Aesthetically speaking atleast. Shooting with a couple of P2cards and the P2store has been a dream... and my first and only intro to the firestore was riddled with problems and corrupted files and all that. Maybe just a bad first impression, but the P2 is the reason I bought the cam.. and not to lump a brick onto the top of it and wrap it in a plastic bag... I also wonder if the firestore's will be still working in a few years. Sure our 4 gig cards might be like floppy drives, but atleast they'll be working... Can't say that for most HDs...
 
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the FS-100, Justyn. But mine has held up solid, no problems, has be very durable, and allows me to shoot DVCPRO-HD for my documentary project in situations P2 cards will not do. And with the v.3 firmware upgrade coming out soon, it'll also make getting footage into my NLE extremely fast. Not to mention that Focus Enhancements has some of the best customer service I've experienced.

So, when I have to shoot an hour long non-stop interview in a rural setting with no electricity, in an intimate setting, where I'm not allowed to get up and move around until the interview is over (crew isn't allowed on the site, just me and my liaison) how do I do that with P2 cards? Can't just interrupt the interview every 4 minutes to pull out a card to load onto a laptop. Not in the situations I'm in.

If you prefer not to use the FS-100, that's fine. But to state some personal grudge in an ugly way, well, not cool.

I have long shoots, often on the run, no electricity around to plug in a laptop, no time to stop and pull P2s, just not in a position to do that workflow. I could just be ugly and say that in my situation, P2s really SUCK! But it's more accurate to say that each has it's place, and for my documentary, the P2 card format as it is now just doesn't cut it. The FS-100 is reliable, durable, and fits my needs in a situation that P2 cards would not permit.

Not to mention the things the FS-100 does that you can't do with P2 cards such as Snap and Timelapse settings the HVX by itself won't do.

I use both, depending on my situation. But 90% of my work can't be done with P2 cards.
 
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I'm glad that works for you, but I accomplish the same thing with my P2store and P2cards.. as well as my laptop.. And I know that its rock solid so no fears there. Like last week, I recorded a concert for 6 hours straight with only brief stops in between performances every hour or. Don't know it the firestore could do that.

I also didn't say anything in an ugly way. I used it when it came out.. and tha'ts the impression that it left with me. A really really bad one... so glad they fixed those problems but still a first impression is hard to shake... I also know that HDs don't like vibrations... shock and just about a bunch of other things...

When the larger cards are out and more affordable it'll all be mute anyway.... Just IMHO doesn't have a good aethetic.. but it's a personal one... and not a rude one.
 
Again, if you were at my side shooting what I shoot, you would undersand that P2 Store and P2 cards can't do what I need done. The FS-100 does. That's all.

I'm not standing still at a concert, I'm on boats, in swamps, very remote areas with very remote people. P2 cards and P2 Store would never hold up in the situations/environments I shoot in.

Each has it uses. But none of them cover ever situation, as you seem to suggest. That's all.
 
BenB said:
Again, if you were at my side shooting what I shoot, you would undersand that P2 Store and P2 cards can't do what I need done. The FS-100 does. That's all.

I'm not standing still at a concert, I'm on boats, in swamps, very remote areas with very remote people. P2 cards and P2 Store would never hold up in the situations/environments I shoot in.

Each has it uses. But none of them cover ever situation, as you seem to suggest. That's all.
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I totally feel where you're coming from.

I've been trying to explain to people here that the current state of P2 cards doesn't work for me, for many of the same reasons you mentioned. But they still try to convince us that using the cards is fantastic and we should use them and nothing else matters. I feel like I'm back in college where the religious freaks try to convince me to accept their faith. People, what works for you doesn't work for me.

Anyway, I'll be waiting for either the Cineporter of the new Firestore, because like you, I feel they will be the most practical solutions until P2 cards hold as much data.
 
Abaddon,
I am not trying to be rude, so please don't take it that way.
However, I don't think it is that everyone is trying to convince you that using p2 cards "is fantastic and nothing else matters", etc, etc.
If you look at your last 75 posts, 50 or more have been related to your dislike for p2. One might just as easily say that you are always trying to convince everyone that p2 sucks, etc, etc.
I realize that p2 may not work for you. You have stated this on numerous occasions. One point that I think some of the folks here have tried to make to you in the various threads regarding your dislike for p2 is that you shouldn't knock what you haven't tried.
No, p2 is not for everyone. And apparently, right now it is not for you. That is great. And, again... I apologize if I am coming across as rude, and it really isn't my place to say, but I am kind of sick of hearing about it.
Wait for the cineporter, get a firestore, or citidisk or get a different camera.

Sorry, I do not mean it as any kind of personal attack, I just had to get that off my chest.

Jason
 
Ramjet1979 said:
Abaddon,
I am not trying to be rude, so please don't take it that way.
However, I don't think it is that everyone is trying to convince you that using p2 cards "is fantastic and nothing else matters", etc, etc.
If you look at your last 75 posts, 50 or more have been related to your dislike for p2. One might just as easily say that you are always trying to convince everyone that p2 sucks, etc, etc.
I realize that p2 may not work for you. You have stated this on numerous occasions. One point that I think some of the folks here have tried to make to you in the various threads regarding your dislike for p2 is that you shouldn't knock what you haven't tried.
No, p2 is not for everyone. And apparently, right now it is not for you. That is great. And, again... I apologize if I am coming across as rude, and it really isn't my place to say, but I am kind of sick of hearing about it.
Wait for the cineporter, get a firestore, or citidisk or get a different camera.

Sorry, I do not mean it as any kind of personal attack, I just had to get that off my chest.

Jason
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Okay Jason, so by your logic, I might as well try smoking crack. Hey, why knock it if I haven't tried it? A lot of people say being high on crack is a good feeling. Why let my prejudice towards drugs stop me from trying something new?

Now pardon my sarcasm Jason, but I'm just reacting to yet another post about how I'm just whining and I need to accept the possibility that P2 might work out geat for me and bla bla bla. As you can see on this thread and many other threads, I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm not a stupid guy. I've done my homework and I know for a FACT that using P2 cards now will not work for me, just like I know smoking crack will not work for me either. Yeah, recording a few minutes of P2 is a rush, but once the high is gone, the ugly reality sets in.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that P2 sucks. I think it's great technology, but it's not very practical. If it works for some people, great, I really don't care. All I care about is what works for me.

And if you think I've been putting up 75 posts about the same problem, maybe you should go back so you can realize that I'll post my opinion a few times and then just respond to the huge amounts of negative feedback. If people wanna debate my point of view, then that's on them. Don't blame me for responding and continuing to defend my argument.

In conclusion, if you're sick of my posts, please save yourself some time and bypass them.

Thanks dude.
 
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Watch the personal attacks! I may accuse you of faking a disease! What someone posts elsewhere doesn't mean a thing. This conversation is right here, right now. I have lots of posts that are possitive about the FS-100, so what does that say about me? That I like the thing? DUH!

So let's get back to the conversation at hand, P2 cards vs. hard drive recorders. I use the FS-100 because the CinePorter is not out yet, and I needed a long term recording medium two months ago, not next year. Besides, aside from showing thumbnails for playback, which the new 3.0 firmware may add, although I don't personally have use for the thumbnails, cause once my shoot is done, I'm stuck with it, no retakes when shooting a documentary in really remote locations.

Simple as that, P2 cards don't fit all shooting situations, neither does the FS-100, neither will the CinePorter. Each has a time and a place, that's it. So what's the problem?

Justyn, a quick question; How do you know you've duplicated my situation when you know nothing about where and what I'm shooting? You should ask people about their unique situations before making assumptions and demanding they're wrong.
 
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What I have concluded from this thread is that the hvx is a great camera with a P2 workflow that is ahead of its time. Early adopters/rich folks will quickly adapt to the P2 workflow buying cards and swapping as needed. If you come from a film background this workflow will not be that much of a stretch. Focus Enhancements has brought to the market a product that addresses some of the major concerns with the P2 workflow.
1. Price of P2 cards
2. Recording capacity of P2 cards

The Firestore has made shooting with the dvcprohd format more practical if you are not shooting film style. If you are shooting documenataries, intimate interviews, weddings, long takes, etc. the Firestore should be seriously considered. The firestore has enabled shooters who would have considered hdv for its 60 minute recording time choose dvcprohd/hvx200 because they now can record much longer in a less compressed/better format.
 
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