The Red Revolution, Now It's Official

V

Verko

Member
First they tried to belittle us. FUD was their weapon. But when the first light of truth revealed their nakedness, they responded the only way they could: with violent treachery, like all tyrants and despots.

Red is not just a camera, or even a company. Red is an idea, and that's what makes it so dangerous.

We have banded together with Jim to pursue this idea, to remove the limitations standing in the way of telling the stories we must tell in the way they should be told. We know we are on the right track, because the resistance is intestifying.

We are with you, Jim. No stopping!

Verko
Red #508
 
The only thing I have issue with is the sentiment that many seem to share that somehow the main limitation "standing in the way of telling the stories" is related to a camera. It just isnt, plain and simple. There are a mountain of other hurdles. If you have passion and talent you can get your story finished with just about any camera. The limitations then become the Hollywood system, no camera changes that...



ash =o)
 
Ash you are right of course.. But the focus of this forum is the camera. So we tend to put our energy on that challenge here.

Jay

Between you and I, I find more technical challenges in sound that I do picture. But as I said, that's a different forum
 
A writer needs a pen, a painter needs a brush. Without these tools he can only keep his art to himself.

Jim
 
But the brush alone did not make Michelangelo, and here we are only really talking about a BETTER brush =o) I am excited for RED in my arena, what I like to call the "middlestream" of production. I will use the camera every day to make money, sometimes to make "art" but mostly to feed my babies.

Look at this and other forums and look at the movies posted. Most are fun, some are pretty decent but would they be better, more marketable, and get theatrical distribution easier if they were shot on RED?

JJ and team are solving the technical part of the hurdles but you still have to market and sell your movie, a camera does neither.



ash =o)
 
From caves to canvases.

A vision to a picture.
A picture to motion,
to full expression.

No more stuff in between.

The visions reside in digital space now.
Turn the red circle on.

Time to release the dreams.
 
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Just as one brush doesn't cover all forms of painting, same goes for cameras,lenses, etc. Each film may need a different brush. How do you make a film that has lots of panoramic beauty shots with a hi-8 camera. Sure you can do it, but it will look quite different than 70mmm film. Bottom line is that if you can tell your story within the format that you have available to you, then by all means, you have to make the film. But there will be movies, videos, etc. that will benefit from having a camera like the Red. You tell the stories the best way you can, and you will use the tools that best convey that story.

Steve
 
By the way, that's what is so intriguing about this camera. Multiple formats, extremely high resolution that can be manipulated later on, and the ability to slap on cine style lenses. That last part is what separates this camera from the DVX for example. The DVX is a wonderful tool, but it is limited somewhat by the lens and also the small chip. You can tell a damn good story with it though.

Steve
 
AshG said:
The only thing I have issue with is the sentiment that many seem to share that somehow the main limitation "standing in the way of telling the stories" is related to a camera. It just isnt, plain and simple. There are a mountain of other hurdles. If you have passion and talent you can get your story finished with just about any camera. The limitations then become the Hollywood system, no camera changes that...



ash =o)
Click to expand...

We are in complete agreement on this, Ash. Didn't mean to imply that the main limitation was the camera. But it is ONE of them. And more than the camera, it's the whole system. Shooting on film has gone away from a significant part of the production world, mostly for budgetary reasons. Film stock, development, transfer, etc. You know the drill. Many projects that I would have shot on film five years ago are all now digital.

I have a 35 and two S16 cameras, as well as an HVX and a DVX. I loved the DVX, and I am really getting great results with the HVX. But I would like to shoot everything on film if I could, but can't. What I am seeing from Red so far gives me the confidence that I can give my projects the look that I want with a digital workflow and cost structure, with no image limitations. Even the Viper and the Genesis are limited visually, compared to film, and Red (so far as I can tell) is not; in fact, regarding noise, Red seems like it will be better, allowing me to push the look further in any direction that suits the story, as well as benefitting FX work.

The cost of shooting film can destroy profits of projects in certain budget ranges, making them a no-go, or more likely a shouldn't-have-done. Red makes artistic sense, and business sense. Can't beat that with a stick!

Referring to your subsequent comment: "Look at this and other forums and look at the movies posted. Most are fun, some are pretty decent but would they be better, more marketable, and get theatrical distribution easier if they were shot on RED?"

You make a good point, but having seen the distribution dance through the eyes of my clients, for a good project, it CAN make a real difference. Certainly can't hurt. And even more importantly, it can make the difference between profitable and non-profitable for the "middlestream". Profitable means that we can continue to tell our (or our clients') stories, and feed our babies as well.

Sound good? But really, I just want the best toys, the fastest cars, the loudest music!

Verko
Red #508
 
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Here's my "Four T's" approach to the imaging industry and RED:

Four essential elements to top-level professional cinematography, videography, and photography: Talent, Training (experience), Tenacity, and Tools – the Four T’s.

Talent you're born with, training you pay time and dues to acquire, tenacity you’re either born with or learn, and tools you must acquire. If you have all four T’s, you'll have a decent chance of doing exceptional work. If Talent is missing, you should definitely think about choosing a different profession. If Training is the only thing missing, pay your dues and you may get to your goals. If Tenacity is missing, concentrate on learning to persevere. If Tools are the only things missing, find ways to get your hands on good tools and you may get to your goals. Talent is the one critical element that you must have or you're chasing an elusive butterfly that will undoubtedly elude you...

All these said, let’s analyze what RED can and can’t do for you.

RED can’t increase your Talent. You’re either born with that, or you’re not born with that.

RED can help increase your Training and experience level, simply by the fact that previously unaffordable technology and resolutions will now be available and accessible for you to use, thus increasing your production knowledge base. If you haven’t been able to buy or rent top-level digital cinema cameras because of affordability, you now may be able to afford to use top-level digital cinema equipment – thus increasing your Training level.

RED can’t teach you Tenacity. If you don’t have Tenacity, only you can choose to learn it. An inanimate object won’t help you in the process.

RED can represent a significant change in your Tools. If you analyze the range of lens formats and image formats, and RED succeeds in producing the features and capabilities that they have proposed, RED could be another valuable Tool in your tool chest.

Bottom line: Because someone buys a pen, does that automatically make them Shakespeare? Obviously not. Because someone buys a paintbrush, does that instantly transform them into Picasso? Obviously not. Talent and Tenacity must combine with Training and Tools for someone to even have a chance to realize their maximum potential in any creative pursuit.

I’ve reserved two RED cameras, the 300mm lens, and the 18-85mm zoom for my business. I'll also be picking up many accessories for my RED systems. I’m a longtime veteran director, cinematographer, videographer, and photographer. I was born with Talent, paid extensive dues in Training, and have a lot of Tenacity. It’s the final “T” that is my motivating factor in acquiring the REDs – Tools. If RED delivers what they’ve proposed, I see it as a valuable and capable new Tool for my business. I own and/or use Tools from many other manufacturers. I’ll still use them when it makes the best sense – and I’ll definitely use my REDs when that makes the best sense.

No magic wand - just a real capable new "T" in my toolbox.

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
 
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I like where this thread is going, because it speaks to why we on this forum are passionate about Red. I like the fact that we are talking about the context of our tools and what role they play.

I started this thread as a way to say that the break-in is really a badge of honor (assuming it is industrial espionage, which I do). In any case, Red is a force to be reckoned with and I know eyes were popping when the 4K still was posted. There is so much positive energy on this forum; Jim and the team bring this energy, and I believe they feed off it too. I hope so!


Verko
Red #508
 
i have yet to meet a filmmaker that didn't want their project to look the BEST ... i have yet to meet a filmmaker that didn't think their script was excellent ... nobody sets out to make/write a bad project...
we all believe that our idea/script/project are excellent & will be the one that might break thru the barriers ... at some point you decide to GO for it ! and you put your heart/soul/passion/time/$$ into it .. you get the best actors available, you get the best crew , bottom line is you try to get the BEST available of/in everything ! ...
 
omen said:
After Gibby I have no further comments. You said it all, man.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was going to write this big long analogy with chains and weak links and... ah hell Gibby said it better anyway.
 
Gibby gets it... I agree on all points. Even if RED is (and it looks to be) revolutionary technology, that does not mean the gates of Hollywood will swing open. Oddly, it will be people like us that prove the cameras viability.

This happened in broadcast with DV, I was in on DAY ONE of DV and most people, well, ALL people, thought it was a joke. Myself and others put in the sweat to show it was a viable alternative to Beta and within 2 years you could see DV footage on almost all networks in one capacity or another.




ash =o)
 
The analogy of tools as a brush for the painter and a camera for the filmmaker is a very important point. It does matter the type of a brush or a camera as a tool for the creator to has. Taking in all factors of production such as actors/actress, location, lighting, ect., the camera alone does not qualify a filmmaker to be a good storyteller. However, a camera like RED will expand the horizon of creativity; and that is a paradigm shifting.
Case in point: I started out as an Eastern artist creating work of calligraphy and ink brush painting. Most of Eastern art works yield the images of flat, some perspective, mostly abstract. The beauty of Eastern art is its simplicity, elegant, and the meaning is within. Now If just say history did not happen and East never meet West, I would probably only paint a story in style reflecting that simplicity of black and white and develop my creativities within this paradigm. As I latter become an oil painter creating works in Realism and Impresionism, where color, shade, shadow, and textures take form. In this case, I still use a brush as a tool but add the new element of color pigment. The result is more flexibilities and dimesions for the artist to explore. This art form take on a different path. By no mean that I say the Western art style is better than Eastern style. Each has its own dictinstive beauty. However, I must admit the introduction of oil pigment to painting had changed the whole world of Western art. This analogy reflects the case of influence of technology on art. If RED lives up to its promise, then that border or box that hold our creativities will be shattered.
 
I think the key aspect of RED is the idea that you don't need to price gouge customers. The industry is plagued with over priced monopolistic equipment. Our company is going down the same path as RED and are pricing our equipment to reach the biggest audience possible. There might be 1000 people willing to pay $17K for a camera but only 50 willing to pay $100,000. It seems to me that Jim is trying to make a statement and lower the cover charge to get into the hollywood club. Soon you will be able to make the same quality movies that the big studios do.
 
Gibby's lucky while I, on the other hand, have no talent, was not even potty trained until a junior in highschool. sleep most of the time, but think RED looks cool and will enjoy making others out here feel like incompetent boobs when faced with my new vastly superior toy.

:cheesy:

Jay

Don't laugh too hard, I would not be surprised if a few potential RED buyers met this description someday.
 
And it makes you wonder what this will do to the whole distribution chain. Actually, even if you exclude the Red camera from the equation, it's going to be interesting to see where things go in a few years. Will theatres evolve and invest in all-digital distribution? Will internet technology and on-demand services improve to the point where hi-definition distribution is feasable? Lots of food for thought. I'm sure a lot of us have been through the trials and tribulations of getting a film or video distributed.

Steve
 
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