Canon Unveils New Prosumer HDV Line: XH G1 and XH A1

Elton said:
Here's an uncompressed SDI capture/pic downconverted to PhotoJPEG @ 100% quality in the 720 format. I'm pretty sure this is 4:4:4 color in 720:
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Some might want the G1 too :)
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Hmmm. Kinda noisy. Some chromatic aberration, too, which is accentuated in the CC shot.
 
Objectionable noise and CA? I never said the H1 didn't have noise--it's just manifested more as luma noise overall.

If these cameras didn't have noise the banding would be awful.
 
Elton said:
If these cameras didn't have noise the banding would be awful.
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There's such a thing as the law of unintended consequences. Elton does hit the nail on the head here, and it's especially important in 8-bit codec formats. When the XL1 first came out there was a veritable poopstorm raised about the highly objectionable banding that occurred on flat surfaces. Canon's solution was that people should add a bit of gain to noisy-up the image, they said the image was too clean/noiseless hence the banding.
 
Gradient areas will show the limitations of 8 bit video video without some noise to act as a natural dither.
 
TimurCivan said:
ohoh like a 256 color gif, the smooth gradients have "steps" of color?
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Exactly. You sometimes see it in skies or on plain walls, anywhere where there's a million slightly different shades of the same color. It's a limitation of 8-bit codecs, where there are only 256 steps possible; 10-bit codecs stretch that to 1024 steps and obviously make for smoother/finer transitions and less visible banding.
 
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All versions of DV (DV, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, DVCPRO-HD) are all 8-bit, as is HDV and HDCAM and XDCAM-HD and AVC-HD. They're all 8-bit.

The DVX is a 12-bit DSP, and the HVX is (I believe) a 19-bit DSP. Which makes for wonderful texturing and shading in the camera. But when it comes time to record it, it gets quantized to 8 bits.
 
however, as it will happen with the redcode that will be 10-bit, cineform raw is 10-bit too..

g1 + hd-sdi = cineform raw 10-bit when available to a simple laptop.. they are working on that.. actually, the technology is available.. mini-silicon camera is already doing it.. it is patent pending.. (i mean: the external hd-sdi device to the laptop connection)
 
TimurCivan said:
What is this banding?
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Sometimes referred to as the corduroy effect.
Like CA, and sometimes along with CA it appears in areas of high contrast, like overexposed areas of a blown out window or skylines.
There are different variations of it, but here's a quick example of banding, as seen along a blown out sky and another object.
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The same battle is being fought in digital photography, although post processing CA and banding out of a still image is obviously a more feasible alternative.
With video, I don’t even know if there is one, is there?
 
The decoder also has an important impact on how the banding will look. If you look at some cheap DVD players banding is more visible than on some higher end players.
 
Hey Elton you were the one who put up that carlosstickers.m2t right? Don't mean to thread jack but for some reason you can't accept pms. I just wanna know what mic you were using that sounded great for being on a city street.

And damn if the A1 can look like that m2t, canon won the war for my money.

Damn the race is getting tight if the sony's street price is about the same as the canon's.
 
ecking said:
Damn the race is getting tight if the sony's street price is about the same as the canon's.
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Thats what competion is for. And if its hard to choose thats a good thing.

Still dream about a 2560*1080P 4:4:4 2/3 sensor cam.
 
ecking said:
Hey Elton you were the one who put up that carlosstickers.m2t right? Don't mean to thread jack but for some reason you can't accept pms. I just wanna know what mic you were using that sounded great for being on a city street.
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That was just the stock microphone. It's actually pretty high quality, but if you were thinking that it was rejecting background noise, I think in that clip there was just a lull in traffic on Main Street.

And damn if the A1 can look like that m2t, canon won the war for my money.
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I'm pretty sure the HDV from the A1 will be virtually identical, if not somewhat improved by the enhanced image controls. What will be nicer about it will be having a much wider stock lens. In that clip I put up it would've helped to have just a litte more WA when running around handheld like I was.
 
Any thoughts on comparing the new Canons with the new Sony HVR-V1U? Sorry, I have read most of the thread (most of the 60 pages) so if it's been covered, I apologize. :\ But humor me... how do you think they stack up?
 
DCCowan said:
Any thoughts on comparing the new Canons with the new Sony HVR-V1U? Sorry, I have read most of the thread (most of the 60 pages) so if it's been covered, I apologize. :\ But humor me... how do you think they stack up?
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We need to see some decent real world footage from both in order to have a better idea.

Obviously, with the A1 you know that it's descended from very good genes...and evolved too. I have a great deal of respect for the DIGIC processing of the XL-H1 and it's likely that the A1 will inherit this awesome trait. In short, the camera seems like a safe bet.

With the V1U...I'm intrigued by a few things but I wonder if Sony truly understands the user's desire for better image control. I also dislike the 1/4" deep DOF (as if 1/3" wasn't deep enough!) but I do like the fact that it's got true progessive chips. CMOS also promises better highlight handling and possibly better dynamic range, but it all depends on just how good the image processing really is.

I think it's going to be very competitive, but for me the 1/4" chip is a bit of a stumbling block. I really can't judge until I've seen some decent footage from the camera, but even if the image from the V1U turns out to be cleaner, I still hate the fact that you will struggle even more for good selective focus/subject isolation with the V1U.
 
I hear you on the 1/4" chip... I see true 24p, which is nice... but just like what we've gone around and around about here, I don't know if for the $ that 24p is really better than 24f. The better resolution, the nearly indistinguishable difference between 24p and 24f with the finished product really has me leaning toward Canon at this point.

My dilemma will be that I had to give up a XL2 (24p) from a previous job -- as I move to 24f, I will have no deck to play archived footage if need be unless I borrow or rent one. :\

Still, I am very excited about shooting with the new A1. I have many sites all around Arizona that I can't wait to shoot footage of... Tombstone, the meteor crater, Sedona, and the Grand Canyon to simply name a few. Can't wait for the end of October!
 
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