Canon Unveils New Prosumer HDV Line: XH G1 and XH A1

Androbot, you make some good points...but this all comes down to perception--and perception is reality. :)

You're probably not aware of this, but the H1's (and the XH cams) CCD's are actually 1440x1080 with widescreen pixels that are shaped with a 1.212 aspect ratio. When you multiply the horizontal res of 1440 x 1.212 you get an effective resolution of 1745 x 1080, and furthermore the XL-H1 pixel shifts horizontally (fairly conservatively, I might add) to achieve full 1920 pixels. This isn't too much of a stretch overall (pun intended ;) )

This is the image that is fed to the HDV encoder to be scrunched back down to 1440 x 1080. The SDI output is actually legit 1920 x1080 too.

This is why Canon HDV 24F, even with its slight drop in resolution, still resolves a bit more detail than the JVC.

It's the CCD, the glass, and the processing.
 
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MovieSwede said:
And what people also should consider is that an avarage cinema only shows between 700-800 lines of resolution.
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Good point, but probably what's more important to consider about these cameras is ultimately how they will look on an HDTV. 24F, shot well, looks great even on full 1080p displays without any softness. 720p can look pretty good too, but slightly softer.

If any of you make it to film festivals with your HD project, it's most likely you will project from an HD souce rather than from film.
 
What it boils down to is that the Canon is simply incapable of full high definition high frame rate progressive scan capture. The JVC HD250 captures full high definition high speed 1280x720p video at 60 complete photographs per second. Thus the effective resolution of the JVC is 1280x1440i versus Cannons 1440x1080i. The resolution of the 720p format is so high that typical 1080i CRT televisions were incapable of resolving the image because a 1080i television can only scan 540 lines at once. Thus in 2003 JVC introduced its radical ultra high definition 1500i CRT television which was the only CRT television capable of resolving the 720p format in full high definition. Thus the 720p signal was broken up into 2 interlace fields of 720 scanning lines each. Thus the television scanned the full 720 lines in its odd field and later scanned 720 lines in its even fields. Of course there were no spatial displacements between the 2 fields but each field had temporal displacements so each field was unique and not simply a copy of the previous field. Thus each frame had a total 1440 lines of resolution displayed 30 times a second. 720 spatial lines plus 720 temporal lines of resolution.
 
androbot2084 said:
What it boils down to is that the Canon is simply incapable of full high definition high frame rate progressive scan capture.
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Maybe not 100% vertically...but have you ever seen a good conversion of 1080i to 720 60p? The extra horizontal resolution can make it very hard to see a difference in real world footage when cross-converting.

Of course on the surface 720 60p would seem to be the best temporal HD format currently available, but I've seen how 1080i can be flexible in its own right and I happen to think it ain't all that bad for what it is.
 
Elton said:
Good point, but probably what's more important to consider about these cameras is ultimately how they will look on an HDTV. 24F, shot well, looks great even on full 1080p displays without any softness. 720p can look pretty good too, but slightly softer.

If any of you make it to film festivals with your HD project, it's most likely you will project from an HD souce rather than from film.
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Not the filmfestivals in my hometown. Its either film or its MiniDV. Of course thats gonna change someday.

And most film will look good on a HDTV if its shoot properly. No lines of resolution will make up for poor lightning.

And the importants of resolution depends on the image size. With 100inch display 1080P will have more impact than on a 40inch. And that difference only 5% cares about. ;)
 
MovieSwede said:
No lines of resolution will make up for poor lightning.
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Couldnt agree more. 720p vs 1080f will only make a tiny % difference to the visual impact of your final production ... light, aesthetics, camerawork, grip work, grading, finishing, etc. will make far more of a difference .. this is obvious. even 720p vs full 1080p (at the same framerate) will give relatively little difference unless you're shooting with fantastic glass. sure the cinealta resolves ~1000 lines, but suitable lenses cost a fortune. And how big is it's sensor area?

The concencus of these forums, dvinfo.net, and cinematography.com is certainly this-- the XL-H1 is hot right now, and gets you the best HDV image. It has the best glass, the best raw resolving power, the best mpeg2 codec.

You're right that 720p done well can be every bit as good as 1080i/f (basically trading some horizontal res for extra vertical res), but the current offerings (i.e. the HD100) has poor glass, not as good an mpeg2 codec, and other weird problems (eg. split screen). No is saying that the HD100 is bad, but the XL-H1 is the current HDV high end model of choice, simple as that.

Have you compared these cameras? What cams do you current shoot with?

Ultimately, they're all GREAT cams.

Theory is one thing, but this is the fact- they're all MORE than adaquate to make your film. Realworld tests say that they're both fantastic. There are subtle pros and cons, that's all.

If the A1 gives us the quality of the current "leader of the pack" in a budget package, it will sell in the masses.

ps. HD250 isn't going to be cheap.
 
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MovieSwede said:
Not the filmfestivals in my hometown. Its either film or its MiniDV. Of course thats gonna change someday.

And most film will look good on a HDTV if its shoot properly. No lines of resolution will make up for poor lightning.

And the importants of resolution depends on the image size. With 100inch display 1080P will have more impact than on a 40inch. And that difference only 5% cares about. ;)
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What I meant is that these new affordable HD cameras are going to usher in a demand at festivals to screen films in HD. It's happening very quickly: Sundance only screens film or HD 1080p from HDCAM decks. A lot of 35mm films were screened from HDCAM too.

My belief is that in the next few years even the smallest festivals will get HD digital projection because there will be a demand to screen digital projects in high quality without the expense of film transfer.

And you're right about screen size and HDTV's--but screen sizes are getting bigger and cheaper all the time.
 
MovieSwede said:
But I love if someone could show me 24F HDV footage with lot of cameramovement and color to se how the camera can handle it.
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This clip might help you. It isn't whiplash-inducing movement but it's handheld with a fair amount of different colors moving across the frame.

It's just a raw 24F .m2t from way back in January when I first got the camera.
CarlosStickers.jpg


http://www.realm.cc/upload/Elton/CarlosStickers.m2t (80 MB)

I'll leave it up for a few days.
 
Wow, that looks pretty good to me. I don't see why people have a problem with Canon 24F or HDV. Whatever differences there are it's pretty minute.
 
Elton said:
This clip might help you. It isn't whiplash-inducing movement but it's handheld with a fair amount of different colors moving across the frame.
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I must say that the system holds up alot better in reality, than it can on paper.
 
rawfa said:
Holy smokes. How did you get ot interview diego luna, alice braga and redford?!
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I did a little "day in the life" mini-doc of Carlos for the Sundance Channel during the festival. Alice and Diegor were the co-stars of his film. I also did another one of a Spanish director--ever heard of Isabel Croixet?
 
The A1 is selling at about 3650€ here in Spain. According to the guy in the store they will be available in a week or so. This store is not the cheapest around. I think I'll probably find it around 3500€ here in Barcelona (I hope so!).
 
Here's an uncompressed SDI capture/pic downconverted to PhotoJPEG @ 100% quality in the 720 format. I'm pretty sure this is 4:4:4 color in 720:
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Some might want the G1 too :)
 
Elton said:
Some might want the G1 too :)
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Thats the problem with the 3 line cameras. Im always like if i put a little bit of extra cash i will get the next modell, and when I get the next model and if i put a little bit of extra cash i will get...

So if im gonna buy the a1 it only gonna end with me standing there with a XLH1 and a angry wife.
 
Aww, I'm just havin' fun. Believe me, the HDV is very close to the same quality, with just a bit less raw chroma...but quite correctable for the most part.

I think the A1 is going to be just fine for most purposes. Every time I compare HDV to SDI acquisition...I'm stunned with how well the HDV holds up.
 
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