More RED photos from the booth.. camera out of box.. best ones so far
- Thread starter Jarred Land
- Start date
Gibby
Red Savant
_MR_ said:
In certain genres of production a microforce motor, mattebox, and follow focus wouldn't be used: ENG-style sports, reality, events, news, etc. If the rods telescoped and collapsed for extension/retraction, perhaps that would help create the added real estate for those cin-style productions where you'd be using the equipment you mentioned.
_MR_ said:
Clamping or sliding weights on the rods behind where the camera body is would help counterbalance the entire rig. That, plus the camera body itself being able to slide and then lock down would help adjust the overall balance of the rig for whatever lens + accessory setup you choose.
If you're able to get the camera over your shoulder, and the weight behind the camera (battery, drive, weights) counterbalances the weight in front of the camera (lens, etc.), it should work fine.
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
Last edited:
emmanuel cambier
Member
You are quiet right the cage won't help any shoulder mounted operation, don't know if you could even try to put the EVF on the cage and put your eye to it.
Gibby
Red Savant
I wouldn't use the cage with the shoulder brace. For mounting the screen there are stainless steel hardpoints all over the camera body. You have multiple options for where to mount the screen. I'd use the shoulder brace with a top handle on the camera body, and the screen attached to a hardpoint spot on the camera body that was convenient for viewing when the rig was on your shoulder.
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
"it's just that this design of body is not gonna help anybody, let me repeat ANYBODY."
That's a pretty silly thing to say. My personal response to this design is, FINALLY, someone's making a camera that isn't son-of-a-ENG. This is the first electronic camera that doesn't impose some legacy configuration of lens grip, XLR jacks, viewfinder, battery pack or you name it that doesn't get in someone's way. The only person that isn't going to be helped by this, is as a person without an imagination.
That's a pretty silly thing to say. My personal response to this design is, FINALLY, someone's making a camera that isn't son-of-a-ENG. This is the first electronic camera that doesn't impose some legacy configuration of lens grip, XLR jacks, viewfinder, battery pack or you name it that doesn't get in someone's way. The only person that isn't going to be helped by this, is as a person without an imagination.
I can´t help myself but to me the whole redrail-thing simply doesn´t work, I think a more reduced, compact system is better.
The Red One looks very small, but this thing expands it tremedously.
When I´m shooting with an SR2 / SR3 in handheld-mode I like to strip off anything unnecessary.
The handles look strange to me too, please Mr. Jannard, you probably own an Arri S-2 / S-3 shoulder set, THAT´s a nice starting point to me, only beaten by the Arricam-shoulderset .
The Red One looks very small, but this thing expands it tremedously.
When I´m shooting with an SR2 / SR3 in handheld-mode I like to strip off anything unnecessary.
The handles look strange to me too, please Mr. Jannard, you probably own an Arri S-2 / S-3 shoulder set, THAT´s a nice starting point to me, only beaten by the Arricam-shoulderset .
ok lets all remember that the camera is still in development... thats a no brainer. There may still be alot of things that are conceptual that you are seeing... assume ergonomics happens near the end of the process.
As for shoulder mount with cage.. each wing of that cage can be removed.. so if you wanna chuck it from a cage on a base system to a shoulder system, you just pop off the camera left back arm.. so your head can have room.
2nd.. those rods are shorties on there.. you can add long ones for matteboxes etc.
One of the reasons for the battery and drive coming off the camera and
getting pushed to the back on the rails is for counterbalance.
As for shoulder mount with cage.. each wing of that cage can be removed.. so if you wanna chuck it from a cage on a base system to a shoulder system, you just pop off the camera left back arm.. so your head can have room.
2nd.. those rods are shorties on there.. you can add long ones for matteboxes etc.
One of the reasons for the battery and drive coming off the camera and
getting pushed to the back on the rails is for counterbalance.
Again the first thing I noticed is that the cage will completely conflict with the shooter's head (headless shooting, perhaps???). That thing worries me (the cage, that is). It seems that Red is overly relying on the use of the cage for mounting. I certainly hope that Red will provide us with means to mount all essentials (EVF, LCD, long lens support rods, follow focus, etc) WITHOUT THE USE OF THE CAGE.
Next observation: when shooting on a wide lens, the entire camera/lens unit will need to slide to the front of the rails (to avoid seeing the rig). How will this effect the EVF? Will the shooter have to strain his neck forward to meet eye to cup? Will the EVF have some form of telescoping feature?
Next observation: when shooting on a wide lens, the entire camera/lens unit will need to slide to the front of the rails (to avoid seeing the rig). How will this effect the EVF? Will the shooter have to strain his neck forward to meet eye to cup? Will the EVF have some form of telescoping feature?
acrochordon
Well-known member
watch the ears
watch the ears
That is not a cage. It is an ear slicer.
Seriously, The rail looks awsome. But RED should change the computer renderings on their web page. No one is going to use the cage and the rail at the same time. The renderings show the rail and cage together, which if used like that will remove an ear.
watch the ears
That is not a cage. It is an ear slicer.
Seriously, The rail looks awsome. But RED should change the computer renderings on their web page. No one is going to use the cage and the rail at the same time. The renderings show the rail and cage together, which if used like that will remove an ear.
Attachments
mike the beginner
Well-known member
The concept of the red rails is a good one. We just have to give feedback to ensure certain things are improved apon. If the body is going to remain small then it seems obvious that there are going to be more than a few items needing to be attached to it, cage or no cage.
The cage idea has maybe got us all fixed on a cage concept which might be fine for cine studio use or whatever but less need off for run and gun use. Maybe we should be thinking of brackets customised to fit to the camera for specific uses. A sliding barrell bracket to house the EVF with a support for the LCD directly above it and placed at the side of the camera body. You can simply take your eye slightly out of the viewfinder and you have the LCD screen in front of you. No need to move your head when you take your eye off the EVF to view the LCD.
The three rod rails at the front can be ordered to suit length wise. The handles at the front could be made longer and shaped differently. I notice that the man (James) in the picture has his elbows a few inches off his body. If the handles were made differently he could keep his elbows fixed into his body giving more stability perhaps.
The shoulder brace part itself as someone mentioned could either have a quick release or it slides way back out of the way to allow for tripod use. It does not look as though mounting the camera without either part or all of the cage or without the red rails looks feasable given the weight of likely extras as mentioned.
I keep thinking about the actual camera size and wonder if it really can continue to be that small and provide all that we expect?
This camera is going to be a brilliant camera anyway, largely because red have hit it off with a remarkable sensor that looks like it has lattitude to die for. And largely because they have priced the camera body really low compared to the competition. How many would still think the same if the camera design was similar to the f900 but smaller. The design ideas are great, they just need more work and more input to make them work in practice. If the body had more bulk (extra height maybe) we could imagine it with more items attached to it and buttons well spaced out. Remember guys although red claim modularity it is not cost free. If the body ships and we find out that red has produced red 2 the following year with a larger body with better spaced out buttons and a more easily balanced overall camera, how many would rush to change the body if the cost was a significant amount of what you already paid for the red 1.
Never be afraid to be negative just be constructive about it. We all want Red one to be right once it ships. In future Red two can come along with minor add ons and adjustments along the way for you to add or not, your choice. I for one would not want to be left with a red one that is superseded with a far better red two.
Just a few thoughts from a beginner thats observing and trying to help.
Michael
The cage idea has maybe got us all fixed on a cage concept which might be fine for cine studio use or whatever but less need off for run and gun use. Maybe we should be thinking of brackets customised to fit to the camera for specific uses. A sliding barrell bracket to house the EVF with a support for the LCD directly above it and placed at the side of the camera body. You can simply take your eye slightly out of the viewfinder and you have the LCD screen in front of you. No need to move your head when you take your eye off the EVF to view the LCD.
The three rod rails at the front can be ordered to suit length wise. The handles at the front could be made longer and shaped differently. I notice that the man (James) in the picture has his elbows a few inches off his body. If the handles were made differently he could keep his elbows fixed into his body giving more stability perhaps.
The shoulder brace part itself as someone mentioned could either have a quick release or it slides way back out of the way to allow for tripod use. It does not look as though mounting the camera without either part or all of the cage or without the red rails looks feasable given the weight of likely extras as mentioned.
I keep thinking about the actual camera size and wonder if it really can continue to be that small and provide all that we expect?
This camera is going to be a brilliant camera anyway, largely because red have hit it off with a remarkable sensor that looks like it has lattitude to die for. And largely because they have priced the camera body really low compared to the competition. How many would still think the same if the camera design was similar to the f900 but smaller. The design ideas are great, they just need more work and more input to make them work in practice. If the body had more bulk (extra height maybe) we could imagine it with more items attached to it and buttons well spaced out. Remember guys although red claim modularity it is not cost free. If the body ships and we find out that red has produced red 2 the following year with a larger body with better spaced out buttons and a more easily balanced overall camera, how many would rush to change the body if the cost was a significant amount of what you already paid for the red 1.
Never be afraid to be negative just be constructive about it. We all want Red one to be right once it ships. In future Red two can come along with minor add ons and adjustments along the way for you to add or not, your choice. I for one would not want to be left with a red one that is superseded with a far better red two.
Just a few thoughts from a beginner thats observing and trying to help.
Michael
Well I'm glad I just watched the YouTube Q&A. It seems that the Red-rails DO telescope (expand and contract) on their own to accommodate longer/shorter lenses. This is very good news for those of us who are looking for a smaller configuration where possible. But even so, I still view the Red-rails as a large config.
I would love to eventually see a super-compact setup down the road. Months ago CVB suggested placing all of the IN/OUT connectors under the red body. I thought this was an excellent suggestion as this seemed to be the best area for adding essentials with out destroying the compactness, ergonomics or even aesthetics of Red.
Now that Red has removed the battery and hard-drive from the body proper, I see a real risk of a Red-Christmas tree phenomenon, with ornaments dangling from every direction (in a rail-less config. that is). While the Red body is elegant and beautiful, no-one is going to shoot much without a battery and hard-drive.
Here's my 'super-compact config' suggestion: I wonder if Red would consider putting a removable solid magnesium chase directly underneath the Red-body, which could house the hard-drive and battery. This could be sold in two sizes for light or heavy storage/battery life. This chase could be mounted directly to the camera-tripod mount and would in-turn have it's own tripod mount underneath. It could also house rods for long-lens support. I realize that this would make the camera taller but ultimately this is much less offensive than most of the alternatives.
I think there is a lot of support for an ultra-compact Red-config on this forum. What ideas would work???
I would love to eventually see a super-compact setup down the road. Months ago CVB suggested placing all of the IN/OUT connectors under the red body. I thought this was an excellent suggestion as this seemed to be the best area for adding essentials with out destroying the compactness, ergonomics or even aesthetics of Red.
Now that Red has removed the battery and hard-drive from the body proper, I see a real risk of a Red-Christmas tree phenomenon, with ornaments dangling from every direction (in a rail-less config. that is). While the Red body is elegant and beautiful, no-one is going to shoot much without a battery and hard-drive.
Here's my 'super-compact config' suggestion: I wonder if Red would consider putting a removable solid magnesium chase directly underneath the Red-body, which could house the hard-drive and battery. This could be sold in two sizes for light or heavy storage/battery life. This chase could be mounted directly to the camera-tripod mount and would in-turn have it's own tripod mount underneath. It could also house rods for long-lens support. I realize that this would make the camera taller but ultimately this is much less offensive than most of the alternatives.
I think there is a lot of support for an ultra-compact Red-config on this forum. What ideas would work???
imgentertainment@mac
The Reverend
I love the pics it is also good to see the camera with a lenes on the front of it. Looking better and better everyday.
emmanuel cambier
Member
EchoDelta said:
good day to you as well my friend.
Please let me add a few more silly words. You are totally free to feel the design of the red1 body is something you have been longing for, but this is not my case. When I say that I find it useless from a shoulder mounting point of view, it may be my lack of imagination or it could be that it is not ergonomic at all.
You may soon notice that a few companies already have some non-ENG type cameras in their catalog.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10849/1157932408.jpg
or something like this
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/10849/1157932480.jpg
This would be a good starting point, something that would light my imagination.
Maybe that 23 years of surfing made me over conscious of balance issues.
It's just that I can't find anything positive in the body design as is, so please someone show me what's positive about it and maybe I can go to bed a happier man.
emmanuel
Emmanuel,
Sorry, but you missed my point. I don't think it silly that you find the Red One design to not "be of any help." It's the "ANYBOBY" that seems odd. Oh well.
And the two cameras you linked to, yes, excellent designs. I use them and like them very much. It's the lack of any "electronic cameras," you know, the E in ENG, that is being talked about. In that respect, Red is a breath of fresh air. To me anyway.
Sorry, but you missed my point. I don't think it silly that you find the Red One design to not "be of any help." It's the "ANYBOBY" that seems odd. Oh well.
And the two cameras you linked to, yes, excellent designs. I use them and like them very much. It's the lack of any "electronic cameras," you know, the E in ENG, that is being talked about. In that respect, Red is a breath of fresh air. To me anyway.
Holosynthetic
Active member
villeluna said:
According to the Q&A video there is onboard flash memory 32-64GB along with the option to record to a separate hard drive.
Jay A. Kelley
Well-known member
My thoughts
My thoughts
Ok the first most obvious question:
The rig we are seeing in the photos.. It's to scale right?
Assumeing that it is, I am reminded of the words of my 1st ex-girlfriend "DAMN that thing's BIG!".
:evil:
I agree with those that are not thrilled with the body's design and also believe that there is much work to do in that area.
That said I am also aware that Jim has been telling us from the beginning that the system is MODULAR. Perhaps the body is so plain because they expect the useful elements we are longing for to ATTACH to the body. However, if we start attaching a lot to that body, that thing will get REALLY big.
I'm gonn hold judgement for a bit because this is a VERY OBVIOUS issue and I think Jim is WAY ahead of us on this. He uses way to many cameras to just let something like this go. We just need to find out what's going on here.
Jay (Smart Ass) Kelley
My thoughts
Ok the first most obvious question:
The rig we are seeing in the photos.. It's to scale right?
Assumeing that it is, I am reminded of the words of my 1st ex-girlfriend "DAMN that thing's BIG!".
:evil:
I agree with those that are not thrilled with the body's design and also believe that there is much work to do in that area.
That said I am also aware that Jim has been telling us from the beginning that the system is MODULAR. Perhaps the body is so plain because they expect the useful elements we are longing for to ATTACH to the body. However, if we start attaching a lot to that body, that thing will get REALLY big.
I'm gonn hold judgement for a bit because this is a VERY OBVIOUS issue and I think Jim is WAY ahead of us on this. He uses way to many cameras to just let something like this go. We just need to find out what's going on here.
Jay (Smart Ass) Kelley
Your right Jay.. Ted stated that the body has changed twice already from the renderings released yesterday.
the cool thing is just how much all this feedback is helping change the camera in realtime..
the cool thing is just how much all this feedback is helping change the camera in realtime..
My main reservation about having so many configurations is that you'll need to hire another person in the camera department whose job it is to weild the screwdriver and to mind all the pieces. Granted that's not much different than what it is now, but ya know what I mean.
The issue with the rods IS the length out the back - too long and it just gets hard to work with on set, especially when working in tight spaces. I suppose you could disassemble it all, re-assemble, re-attach all the bits....hmm.
The issue with the rods IS the length out the back - too long and it just gets hard to work with on set, especially when working in tight spaces. I suppose you could disassemble it all, re-assemble, re-attach all the bits....hmm.