FCO 5.1.2 and HVX200 vs GY100- Questions

Resolution ain't everything!
Picture quality & production workflow should be your determining factor.

Plus, the resolution difference between those two cameras ain't "THAT" much different if you ask me.
 
Well, not really.
P2 vs. Tape is like Compact Flash vs. Floppy Disks.
Deciding the camera is not only POST production workflow, but also PRODUCTION workflow as well. night & day difference. Which is best for you? Which do you trust. Which is easiest to deal with. Which is faster for you. Which can you afford. Which is best for YOU?

Let that determine your camera decision Denada, not the editing system you get to use. In january we said "ONE DAY ALL NLE's WILL WORK WITH ALL CAMERAS" and that day is coming around faster then people can finishin just 1 project. So if people bought a camera based on the NLE they want to use, then they would be sorely dissapointed in months/years to come.

Let me ask you this.... what do you shoot the most?
 
Drama...some documentaries also, at times.
Yes, you got a point but in production workflow issues but P2 is expensive, and most of the times requires a laptop on set. In case of documentaries you have to travel abroad and sometimes it's difficult to have all at hand in the case you want to move fast, son MiniDv is a low cost portable option...on the other hand post is faster in P2...actually the only issue keeping me back to buy a GY100 is the codec issue...because you can also have a Firestore with it...so how do I stick to HVX option?
 
One of the things you seem to be missing is the understanding of the 2 different codecs. The HVX and P2 is a DVCPro codec where as the JVC, sony and canon all use the HDV codec which is Mpeg 2 compression.
 
Look, I know HDV has its limitations and so does the P2 worklow, especially if you're working on a tight budget. However, I've seen some terrific footage from the HD100, stuff that nearly made me put my money down on one immediately. The HVX200, however, has produced some great footage of its own, it too made my wallet tremble. But now that FCP is up to snuff to edit everything natively makes things even more difficult. I can't say you won't be sorry going with either camera, that depends on how you like whatever you choose. Look in the Other Cameras forum, some guy dropped the opportunity for the HVX200 to go with the JVC. I honestly wouldn't mind either camera, both have workarounds to their limitations and those limitations are merely little mild inconveniences when it comes down to it. Go with what you like, not what everyone else says you should like.
 
ozduc said:
The HVX and P2 is a DVCPro codec where as the JVC, sony and canon all use the HDV codec which is Mpeg 2 compression
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it tickled me how you made sure you pointed out the mpeg2 'compression' while you negated the fact that dvcprohd is a compression in iteself and just listed it as a 'codec'. They are both codecs, and they are both compressed. *smile*

but yes, ozduc & jack are absolutely right denada.
Actually, it seems you were always leaning towards the HD100, C'mon buddy, tell us the truth, you were weren't you? *smile*

Either way, as long as your story is good, you will be OK with either cam. Good luck on what you buy, and report back.
 
No Shannon, actually I think I'm leaning towards HVX because of the color sampling compression and the minor rendering time in editing process. Although I think GY100 looks better and has all controls at hand...but I really want to be 100% sure
 
Sorry guys...I need some help here. Again I'll go a little back to try explain the whole situation.
I'm about to buy either JVC GY 100 or Pana HVX
Now that FCP will be editing 24&25P HDV natively why should I prefer HVX?
I'm leaning to HVX because of the codec, and the color sampling compression....but on the other hand many people say that you can hardly notice the difference when you see a monitor and also that GY100 has better resolution....so what would you say? this is really confusing...I was a big fan of the HVX and I had dropped the idea of the JVC but, as a FCP user, now that there are no editing differences (are there?)....what should I do? Also, is it real HDV? not a down conversion? Too many issues to consider, and I'm about to stick to totally different ways for at least some years so...
well, thanks in advance...I'm just hours away from my final decision, that includes whether or not to buy Firestores, p2 cards, etc...my major concern is the best film look and best image quality over costs...thanks!
 
ShannonRawls said:
it tickled me how you made sure you pointed out the mpeg2 'compression' while you negated the fact that dvcprohd is a compression in iteself and just listed it as a 'codec'. They are both codecs, and they are both compressed. *smile*
Click to expand...

Well my point was that they are two totally different codecs. Yes they are both compressed, but at about 6.7:1 the DVCPro codec is a lot less compressed than HDV at about 25:1. I am not trying to defend one against the other but just pointing out a fact that the poster seemed to be missing in trying to make his decision.
 
Denada Chile said:
Sorry guys...I need some help here. Again I'll go a little back to try explain the whole situation.
I'm about to buy either JVC GY 100 or Pana HVX
Now that FCP will be editing 24&25P HDV natively why should I prefer HVX?
I'm leaning to HVX because of the codec, and the color sampling compression....but on the other hand many people say that you can hardly notice the difference when you see a monitor and also that GY100 has better resolution....so what would you say? this is really confusing...I was a big fan of the HVX and I had dropped the idea of the JVC but, as a FCP user, now that there are no editing differences (are there?)....what should I do? Also, is it real HDV? not a down conversion? Too many issues to consider, and I'm about to stick to totally different ways for at least some years so...
well, thanks in advance...I'm just hours away from my final decision, that includes whether or not to buy Firestores, p2 cards, etc...my major concern is the best film look and best image quality over costs...thanks!
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "real HDV"?
Before you spend any money on either camera, you should go out and rent both cameras for a day. Set them up side by side and shoot a bunch of footage at the same time. Then take said footage back to your edit station and cut some stuff together, add some graphics, put it through the entire post process and output to tape, DVD, the web or whatever other medium you choose. Then you will be able to make an informed decision as to what codec, looks and works best for you. You are in a HVX forum, most of the opinions you will get here will lean towards the HVX. Have you asked the same question on a JVC or canon forum?
 
Denada Chile said:
Now that FCP will be editing 24&25P HDV natively why should I prefer HVX?
Click to expand...
Things the HVX does that the JVC doesn't:
Frame-discrete compression
4:2:2 color sampling
Shoots 1080i, 1080/30p, 1080/24p, 720/60p -- so it has the ability to shoot "reality" footage and "film-style" footage, in both high-def and standard-def
Shoots variable frame rates in 720p mode, every even frame rate from 2 to 60 fps, and a few odd frame rates too (mainly 3, 23, 25, and 27)
DVCPRO50 mode for SD recording, extremely mild compression.
4 channels of uncompressed audio
Wider wide angle lens
Much cleaner optics with dramatically less "chromatic aberration"
No issues whatsoever with "split-screen" or "dead pixels" or "mode changing" or any of the other things that the JVC has historically struggled through
Batteries last 4 hours, vs. 40 minutes for JVC
480/30P
(subjectively) better-looking footage
Shoots HD and DVCPRO50 to P2 or FireStore or other firewire recorder

Things the JVC does that the HVX doesn't:
EDTV in both 480/60p and 576/50p modes (note: not NTSC and PAL, it only does one or the other, but it has an HDV-SD mode)
Interchangeable lens
Shoulder-mount form factor
Shoots HDV to tape or to firewire recorder

and also that GY100 has better resolution....
Click to expand...
Categorically not true. They are nearly identical in resolution. Here's two example shots, one from the HD100 and one from the HVX -- are you seeing a difference in resolution?
http://www.fiftv.com/HVX200/HD100-n-HVX-on-Strip/HD100-Strip-1.JPG
http://www.fiftv.com/HVX200/HD100-n-HVX-on-Strip/HVX-Strip-1.JPG
 
Alone the HVX shoots nothing but DV25. It takes the additional expense of P2 cards and/or Firestore to record HD, but at an additional cost. But don't take my word for it, I'm a biased HD100 and XL-H1 user.
 
No need to say more, thanks to all

No need to say more, thanks to all

Barry, just what I needed!
It's been very clarifying to me. I'll get get the HVX. And no I didnt ask the same in the JVC forums but kept looking at all the "4 affordable cameras tests" and stuff available there. I know that is a hard decision, both have pros and cons, but I think what i'm looking for is more here than there.
Thanks everyone!!
 
I was actually gung-ho for the HD100 over the past year or so. I was doing a lot of research, going to Moviola seminars on the HVX-200 and HD100. I was almost certain that the HD100 was the camera for me. To me, the Sony Z1U was never really an option, given that the 24 frame mode was essentially not really 24 frames, requiring people to do some funky math to get a film out or work with post minus the drift. The Canon XL-H1 is prohibitively expensive at around seven to ten grand.

But a few major points came up that really swayed my opinion away from the HD100. I couldn't get over the split screen issue. No matter how much the fireware could lessen the effect, it is inherently a hardware issue since the two fields are capturing separately. In low light nightime situations, some of the footage I saw looked awful when the gain was cranked up. The color compression of HDV also nagged me, since I want to manipulate color quite a bit. Michael Cioni from Plaster City Post is very outspoken about the HVX-200 being the only camera in its price range that will give you professional latitude with color timing in post at 4:2:2.

Last but not least, the lack of Final Cut support just killed planning out a workflow for the HD100. I know that the new version of FCP is supposed to address this, but at the time I was considering the HD100, the Lumiere HD100 720p 24 codec was one of the few options around. I wanted to keep things simple. The Import Panasonic P2 Card option was sitting there in FCP, staring me in the face.

My HVX-200 should be arriving on Thursday. It will be a very happy day for me, as I can start shooting again for the first time since film school, which seems an eternity ago. Helps that I'm a professional union sound supervisor/designer now. But I never gave up on making films.

ShannonRawls said:
it tickled me how you made sure you pointed out the mpeg2 'compression' while you negated the fact that dvcprohd is a compression in iteself and just listed it as a 'codec'. They are both codecs, and they are both compressed. *smile*

but yes, ozduc & jack are absolutely right denada.
Actually, it seems you were always leaning towards the HD100, C'mon buddy, tell us the truth, you were weren't you? *smile*

Either way, as long as your story is good, you will be OK with either cam. Good luck on what you buy, and report back.
Click to expand...
 
im sorry, but the P2 card is NOT a negative, it is one the biggest positives for the camera! HDV vs P2? please
 
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