RED Accessories Pricing Announcements?

Zack Birlew

Zack Birlew

Veteran
Hi guys, I'm eagerly awaiting some high quality footage to download off of the RED website, but looking around at the refined RED Rails and cage, I notice it doesn't say any pricing for those. I mean, if I'm wanting to get the RED and one of the lenses, I'd definitely want to get the cage and rails to allow for the full functionality of the system. Is there a timeline for these pricing announcements or have I missed something?

Also, a little off topic, but what exactly is the difference between the current RED lens and the new one? Is one designed for ENG and the other filmmaking? Or perhaps one more suitable than the other? Or is it just another lens to add to the roster?
 
What is your confusion regarding the lenses? One is a 300mm prime and the other is an 18-85mm zoom... they are dramatically different lenses for equally different purposes.

To my knowledge, accessory pricing has not been announced.
 
Brook, I'm just an Average Joe, I don't know what "300mm Prime" or "18-85mm zoom" means. What I need to know is simple stuff, is one wider? Is one more telephoto? Which one will be the all-around lens and which will be the certain situation lens? Those are the things I'm asking about.
 
No offense, but if you are serious about buying a Red camera, you should already know what lens numbers mean.

But, I'll dive in. A lenses mm number refers to the field of view. The lower the number the wider the view. A zoom has a range which can be changed within it's range. This usually causes the F-stop to increase over a prime. The F-stop listed is the Widest the the aperture will open up. The amount of light that can go through the lense.

A prime has only one field of view. It usually lets more light in than a zoom, as there are less image elements in the lens. The more elements inside a lens the more light is lost as it passes through the lens.

T-stops are f-stops for a specific lens. A t-stop takes into account the light loss of the lens and tells you the actual f-stop of a particular lens.

So a 2.8 f-stop is "slower" (Takes more light to get an image) than a 1.8 f-stop lens.

Also, remember that a given mm number means something different depending on the size of the sensor or image frame. 18mm means something different on a 35mm film camera lens and is different than that of a 35mm movie camera, which is different than a 16mm camera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/stop
 
Excuse me, but where do you guys get off with this attitude that I should already know this stuff?

I've never used external lenses on an interchangeable lens camera system, still, video, or through an adapter (ie. M2, Brevis, etc.). I've never had the opportunity nor the need to learn anything about lenses beyond "This camera has a built-in 20x zoom and this one doesn't", if you knew me you'd know that I know quite a bit about many other things camera related. However, lenses are a new thing that I'm wanting to learn about and I think it is incredibly rude for you guys to somehow imply that I'm inferior for not knowing about this stuff already.

If I had said "I've never played football, how do you play?", what it sounds like you guys are saying is "You don't know how to play football? If you don't know how to play by now then you're never going to be good at it, so go away and do something else then!"

tak, I appreciate the rundown, but I'm aware of the technicalities behind a lens, however I have no idea what that would mean in regards to the RED lenses, since I've never used differing lenses before. I would have to see the difference in person to understand. Just a simple "This one is wider/more telephoto than that one" would do.
 
Fixed or prime lenses are set at one focal length (e.g. 28mm kinda wide; 55mm close to human field of view; 300mm long lens for telephoto work) while variable or zoom lenses have a theoretically infinite number of focal lengths between two prime ends (e.g., 12mm - 120mm and everything in-between).

I use zoom lenses as "variable primes" very often. You select one focal length out of the range and the shot is locked there for the duration. So, in the new 18mm - 85mm, you have the flexibility of shooting at 55mm all day long if you want. For another shot, you can work at 28mm and so on. Just like your DVX zoom lens.

I can't answer your question on accessory prices, but if you're thinking about owning-operating a camera of this type, you should definitely invest in a few good books on cinematography basics.

Kris Malkiewicz and M. David Mullen have the well-received Cinematography book that has been used in film schools as supplemental material.

Also, every cinematographer should own this: ASC Manual, 9th Edition

Good luck and keep your chin up!

e
 
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Hey Jack.

The 300mm prime is telephoto, with all that that implies image-wise.

The RED zoom covers a standard focal range from wide to mid-long.

As mentioned above, the zoom will probably need more light and compared to primes may breath more. Check out the RED lenses thread if you're interested in what lenses are good for ENG, and which for narrative.

There are no stupid questions. :thumbsup:
 
Hey Jack.. I hear you. we all were there at one point.

The 300mm is a long lens.. its basically where you are when you zoom all the way in on an average Fixed lens camera... but its a prime, so you cant zoom out.

The zoom is gonna be the workhorse lens... what you probally will use most.
 
The telephoto lens is what reporters use to get forbidden celebrity shots from far away... sort of like a spy lense.

It is also used by a lot by sports photographers/videographers to get close-ups of players on the field while they sit confortably from the stadium seats.
 
yes.. its a Telephoto but dont get too scared about the 300mm number, a DVX at full zoom is about 330mm.. and the HVX at full zoom is 425mm.. Many people shoot dramatic stuff at the end of the lens (albeit usually to cheat a shallow DOF) .. but you can compress the viewable plane.
 
Jack i know how you feel . i decided on not going to vancouver film school based on one memorial experence .. i was takeing a tour being shown around by some admin guy who basicly was just his 3 hour aday vacation for him self to name drop these famous people at me then snub his nose at me if i asked questions about simple things ... we finally got to the downstairs which used to be a bank .. and he said to me " well i suppose i don't have to mention what this room is for *pertencious snobby laugh* " i looked at him and looked around bewilderd .. and "said no ... no i don't you tell me your giving me the tour " then he replyed to me
"oh god your kidding me right ?!" i said " no ..no im not. Really whats it for ; For all i know there could be children down here making nike shoes .. a brothel or it could be your meth lab how the hell am i supposed to know ???!?"

then he looked at me as if i was the most stupid unworthy person hes ever met made a awkward smile and said "well obviously this is the equipment room right over there behind that door "

so much for thinking you can goto school to learn ... famous vfs dropouts include kevin smith .. with the money he got back he made clerks ..

the moral of that story ? .. everyone learns at a diffrent rate and in this industry the best way of learning is with expernce .. prime lens (not slr ones) cost thousands of dollers each . $5000, $9000, $20,000 each .. An arri flex st cam with a nice zoom .. costs upwards of $450,000 . So unless your working on a professional film set ... chances are your not gonna get a chance unless your rolling in it to work with master prime lenses right off the bat .it just is unlikely to happin . if it does though all the power to you . (just don't drop one ) .im sure you will though .not drop one that is but well ugh you know what i mean !

serious pecies of kit !

The most important thing to know is in the end what matters is not what you know but what you produced . Stanley kubrick said just shoot anything all the time never put the camera down . And spike jonze working with a pro crew on his first music video "cannon ball " would all the time have people on crew come up and ask him questions about if he wanted this or that or to use this or that ... most of it was just him nodding and smileing because at that stage he really didn't know .. so .... he faked it .


On another note .. to tak1108 never say "no offence" to somebody if you don't want to offend them , its just an oximoron .. but in tak1108's defence jack . He IS trying to be helpful . The red camera is going to cost shitloads .. $17.500 plus lenses another $5000 for the 300mm and $10,000 for the zoom , And honestly id say you would need another 3 primes after that . so it could end up costing you if your really serious about this new toy thousands and thousands . Why not just use a dvx with a redrock adapter or even an hvx .. the limitations of these allready amazing cameras will improve your skill and sharpin your creativity to get around problems on set .for when you do make the leap to totally mind blowing cameras ..

But just because you have all the right equip doesn't mean your films won't be piles of festering feces !

so i recomend keep shooting and keep asking questions untill your fingers bleed or your lips fall off .. and may noone beable to pull your dvx or anyother camera from your cold dead hands , if your passion for film so lasts untill the final goodnight ....( or pull away your shoe box with a hole in it labeld camera on the side in crayon ....sanity can also be fleeting in this industry but don't give up !)

And remember all the best film makers started with larger creativity than pocketbooks . and bigger dreams than egos .


So i will end this reply With a quote from one of my favorite movies of all time .

"Now for some of you it Doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you :take dead aim on the rich boys .Get them in the crosshairs . And TAKE THEM DOWN. Just remember they can buy anything . But they can't buy backbone . Don't let them forget it ." - Rushmoore
 
Thanks guys! I didn't think this thread would snowball like it did to where people would be up all night talking about this (at least it looks like that in my time zone). But yeah, I really don't know much about lenses. A weak point, sure, but I try my best to help in other ways around the site as most of you know. lol, I guess this explains why nobody ever sees me in the Still Photography forum! :)

But yeah, because the RED is really starting to look good, I'm actively pursuing options to be able to afford one once it's released, heck I may even put the golden $1,000 reserve down (mostly so I can get that cool little RED "R" figurine thing). So the lenses do play a big part in it, I haven't looked away from using a series of Nikon lenses but as with a person buying a Canon XL-series camera, you may just want to get an all-around basic lens that the camera manufacturer provides and since they've announced this new lens, I would have had no idea which one to aim for (which I understand now would be the new one, thanks again for making that clear). So now that I have a better understanding of the whole lens issue and the basic workings of one (thanks to the layman's terms explanation), I can now purchase the best lens for me.

I'm sorry if I came on a little strong with my last post, but I didn't expect the replies I got, I'm used to nice simple straightforward answers and I gladly give them in return if I can help with something and if there's still confusion then I would delve into technical explanations. Perhaps I would have been better off asking my question in a simplified way as in "What will the new lens get me that the first one wouldn't?". Then I probably would have gotten a simple answer. But I felt that I was scoffed at for not knowing already, as if I were the new guy peaking over the shoulders of a huddled group. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I know much more than I do, I'm not knowledgable in all subjects, but heck, who wouldn't be when you've been on the DVInfo.net and DVXUser.com boards for a few years hanging around with guys like Chris Hurd, Nate Weaver, Barry Green, Jarred Land, and too many other experienced guys like that to name?:thumbsup:

In the future, I'll try to remember the impression I may give to new and old members alike who may stumble upon my ramblings from time to time and may mistake me as one of the top guys on here, I'm far from it. Take a look at my profile guys, I'm only a 20-year-old college student! :grin:

So again, thanks for the help guys, even if I didn't quite understand every little bit of it, but I'm learning. :beer:
 
Don't feel bad Jack, I just started teaching camera at a film school and it's tough to fin even a good text to use. I'm still looking. But there was some good information passed to you here. Just keep in mind everything in the camera world is a trade off. For instance in the lense, a zoom lense gives you variable focal lengths mm28 to mm85 just like the zoom on the dvx 100. In order to do this the manufacture has to add more elements (glass lenses) to the lense. That means less light and more distortion. Prime lense are set at a single focal length like the 300mm, while your confined to the single focal length these lenses generally pass more light and have less distortion.

Here is a good link for lenses and how they work;

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm

Hope that helps,
Gopher
 
Hey Jack. Sorry for busting your chops, man.

There was a time when i knew nothing about this stuff too. And in fact, have a LOT to learn to be anywhere close to the chaps around dvxuser.

Heck, I had never thought of the way a lens works with regards to explaining it to someone. To me it was just one of those practice, look at the results, practice some more.

The way we learned in film school, was to shoot still photos with an SLR, or single lense reflex camera. This allows you to learn cinematography conventions without a huge expense in film stock. And video cameras that we had access to were fixed lense cameras.

So, shoot some stuff with a 12mm fisheye and see what it does things in the foreground. Shoot with a 300mm lens and see how it's different. How it creates a different spacial dimention.

One of the major things to notice when using prime lenses is that your zoom is gone. it's not an option. you have to find other ways to move the camera. It's really a great thing, but as with all things filmmaking, it's not cheap. Suddenly you are filming with a prime lense and you want to move in and highlight something, well, you need a dolly to do it smooth.

I suggest you get a 35mm camera and a couple of lenses off ebay. That's exactly what I did. I shot Hi8mm and 16mm film all through college, but only shot stills for class. After I got a still camera, I learned more about the image and how it conveys emotion.
 
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