hvx200 w/ DOF vs. Red

Holosynthetic

Holosynthetic

Active member
I have come at a point at deciding which camera is best for the money so let me lay it out for you so you can give me some feedback on what you think.

HVX200 ~$5,400
Zacuto DOF Adapter ~$15,000
P2 Store ~$1,600
2x 4GB P2 Cards ~$1,050
Marshall w/ Panasonic conversion ~ $1600

Total: ~$24,650

I was talking with Steve at Zacuto and he brought up his DOF Adapter which is coming out near the end of November. He mentioned a 50x resolution increase over current DOF Adapters like the M2 and its magnificent lineup of Zeiss ZF Lenses (can be read about HERE). Perhaps I'm a sucker for high quality goods but his pitch got me thinking about pricing and how the RED camera comes into this.

RED ~$17,500

Total: ~$25,000 w/ recording hardware and batteries (someone estimated a value similar to this in another thread)

My problem? I just recently acquired a nice set of Nikon Primes (fastest available 24, 28, 35, 50, 85, 105, 135mm) and I really don't want to sell them on Ebay. I'm not including cost of sound, lighting, or tripods because they would probably be similar for both cameras.

QUESTION: regardless of when these items become available, which one would inevitably be the smarter choice?

P.S. My computer is a Mac Pro 3ghz w/ 8GB Ram and Kona 3 running Final Cut Studio (undecided on hard drive setup at this time) I only say this in case someone is wondering what I am working with while capturing the footage.
 
keep in mind that while 50x improvement over M2 sounds good it really means nothing. Aside from how the figure was arrived at you are still limited to the resolution of the host camera and no matter what camera you choose it won't compare to red.
Aloha
-A
 
Red of course.
More resolution, probably better image quality, more dynamic range, more variable frame rates, more options, more modular, more futur proof, ...
anything else :D ?
Ow yes, the RED camera is much sexier, if you fall for those things :smile:

With the HVX you'll get what you pay for, maybe even a little less because of that expensive adapter. You'll still need to light for a 1/3 chip camera.
With RED, if all the early reports about the image quality were right, you are getting more than 100.000 dollar quality, compared to other cameras in the market.

Really, the choice is a no brainer.
 
Red, but better order instantly because after the footage gets shown about 9 hours from now, the order queue is going to be half way around the planet.

He who hesitates is last!
 
"I don't have a scanner or printer to fill out the reservation (I know, i know! $9k computer and no printer) "

theres always kinkos or mail boxes etc who can do faxes for you...
 
tonacidigital said:
"I don't have a scanner or printer to fill out the reservation (I know, i know! $9k computer and no printer) "

theres always kinkos or mail boxes etc who can do faxes for you...
Click to expand...

I just ran down to Kinko's to fax the form off so I can try to get in before the rush, thanks for the brilliant tip!
 
In fairness the Zacuto system INCLUDES 4 very nice Zeiss primes, rods, support, etc. etc. etc. etc. Each lens has its own special adapter as well. We are prolly talking $8K+ is just glass.


ash =o)
 
I see. that makes more sense..

buuut. regardless. i consider the RED equivalent to a lamborghini that can be bought for 25,000 (with the needed accessories). Getting the hvx200 packaged with the zacuto add on.is like getting a honda civic with turbocharged engine, ceramic headers, greddy exhaust lowering springs, nice wheels, tires, carbon fiber ..etc etc. (no offense to fully loaded civic owners, but I'll take the 25 g lambo.
 
"I don't have a scanner or printer to fill out the reservation (I know, i know! $9k computer and no printer) "

theres always kinkos or mail boxes etc who can do faxes for you...
__________________
Click to expand...

No need to fax or email, just pick up the phone and speak to a nice lady who will take $1,000 from your credit card and even tell you what your red one number is. Its that easy. After that you then have to print out form and email or fax it to red and after a few weeks you will get your little keepsake number sent to you (if you are below 1,000) which you should be at this stage. You will get the tel number by phoning red and someone will give you the red hot line.

You must have a " RED" phone or you will not get through:grin:

Have a look at the "red lenses" thread. It will answer some of your questions. I dont know what level of experience you have but if you are a beginner like me then please think long and hard before you splash out all that money either way. This aint no beginner camera and is likely to be completely manual. If like me you have only used manual on an extremely rare occasion then be prepared to spend a LOT of time just trying to get the camera focused.I have factored in a whole year! Many other things we take for granted because they are done automatically will have to be done by YOU manually. Dont get caught up in the euphora here at red. These guys are mostly all pros or have a LOT of experience. For them red is "a new beginning" for people like me that statement is going to be well "Huge like gigantic new beginning"

Remember whilst FOV is going to be brilliant your DOF is going to be massively reduced when using 35mm lenses. If you are using this camera for run and gun work for the moment with the possibility of other uses at a later stage then you are going to have to spend a lot of money on either a s16mm zoom lens or a 2/3rds lens with b4 mount. To get a good quality second hand lens is likely to cost in excess of $6,000. Therfore no cheap still camera lens option for you if you need a much deeper DOF.

I would adjust your estimate to nearer $30,000 minimum if you intend to do that type of work just mentioned. Have a look at my own posts here and at DVinfo to get some idea of the advantages and disadvantages, then follow the replies they are far more important!

Dont underestimate the difficulties of using the red camera if you have been used to prosumer level camera's. Those who have been using prosumer camera's for a long time will obviously adjust much quicker than others like me who have limited time even with prosumer camera's.

If you are not a determined individual that is prepared to spend a lot of time just learning how to use the red then i would look at other cameras.

I have learnt a huge amount of knowledge already thanks to these guys here and others over at DVinfo. I mention the "experience thing" because i can read your question and know most of the positive and negative's already. You would not have posted the question if you knew, so remember time spent learning now will save you a lot of time and money later on. If you are anything like me your purchase of red will be a tale of two halfs. Jubilation that you will have possibly the finest tool you could ever have (for the money) in your hands and there is no boundries you cannot tackle with it. That part is brilliant, so too is all this excitement. Have you any idea how excited i am waiting to click on to Red and read the latest news. We have months of ecitement and possible worry before we even get the camera. The other half though is nothing but anguish, worry. fear that i am spending this money and i might just not cut it with such an advanced camera. However console thyself that if you do fail (what is that word don't know what it means he he) then you can always sell as there will be redy.. oops ready takers queing up to take it off your hands. I hope this little post helps you and possibly others cheers and good luck whatever way you choose.

Michael
 
Actually, only about $4K worth of glass.. any way you look at it, not comparable to red in any way.
Aloha
-A
 
a dof adapter is a dof adapter not a red camera not film ...
i try some adapter, before made 2 35mm dof machine it's work very well and it's sheap ! ( a spin cd with vaseline in a box with too glass ... easy !)
i prepare a new one for a moyen format (70mm?) for a semi-fisheyes ( i want small dof on big angle...) it is better than 35mm film?
no just a 70mm dof adapter.

try an adaptor for a day or too before buy one you will see the limit.


sorry for bad english (i am french) bonne journée :thumbsup:
 
I think your problem is that you're adding so much more costs to the HVX; to try and make it like the RED -- and although the costs come close (which shouldn't happen if you use a cheaper DOF adatper), in the end, the RED is STILL much better. So assuming all costs are same, of course the RED. Did you think anyone would advise the HVX?

But if you were to buy a cheaper DOF adapter, then it would be a different story.

If you're considering the HVX for purchase, why not the DVX with Andromeda update?
 
Poi Boy said:
Actually, only about $4K worth of glass.. any way you look at it, not comparable to red in any way.
Aloha
-A
Click to expand...


Need to include the custom relay lenses in your estimation...



ash =o)
 
when it smells to money they ask what they think it can sell.. i'm tired of this stuff.. long life to our che.. che jannard!
 
Buying a 15000$ adapter for a 5500$ camera is just insane.
It is not that the adapter would magically make an Arriflex out of your video cam.
It´ll actually decrease the image quality further, even if most people probably prefer the new look.
I think the Lamborghini/Civic comparison doesn´t do justice.
I think with some NOS tuning you can make a Civic as fast as any Italian sportscar. At the end you get the same topspeed.
No matter what you do to a HVX it will never even come close to what the RED will deliver.
The RED has everything to start a revolution, but if you need a camera right now the HVX with one of the "DIY" 35mm adapters is one of the best deals for the money, my 2c.
 
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