How to get rid of DVD SP Blockyness

D

DP StrangeLove

Well-known member
I am trying to get a clean cut of my HVX footage shot at 720/24p onto a DVD.
But when I author and output the Footage to DVD via DVD Studio Pro, my footage looks incredibly blocky to the point of looking almost awful. This happens when I run the DVD both on my apple laptop, and an HDTV.
Why is my footage looking so blocky? It looks beautiful when it is in my FCP timeline, and viewed on my monitors. Even when I hook up my HVX to my HDTV, the footage looks great, as it should be. But when I burn it to a DVD, it looks horrible. Is it because of the compression? I have tried several different methods of compressions and importing the footage into DVD SP. I have done mpeg2 around 7.0mbps, and also just tried importing a 720p Quicktime file in DVD SP, but nothing seems to make enough of a difference. Is this the way my HVX footage will always look when output to a DVD?
Looking for help ASAP, as I have mmy client reviewing the footage tomorrow on a DVD.
 
Did you encode with compressor? What version of FCS are you running? I normally use the compressor dvd 90min high quality 16x9 preset from compressor. bring into dvdsp and burn it.
 
soarprod said:
Did you encode with compressor? What version of FCS are you running? I normally use the compressor dvd 90min high quality 16x9 preset from compressor. bring into dvdsp and burn it.
Click to expand...
I am running FCP 5.0.4 I use 'quicktime conversion' to essentially compress the footage to the same setting as the compressor setting you are using.

Are you seeing blocky footage?
 
Just a suggestion. Why don't you export from quicktime as an uncompressed SD file (will take a lot of space). Look at that and see if that is acceptible. Then have your DVD program transcode that as MPEG 2.

Barry recently did some tests showing how nicely 720p downrezes to an SD DVD (did comparison shots showing it looked way better than a DVX in 16x9) so I don't think it's the camera. I've downrezed stuff from the HVX to SD (haven't burned it to a DVD yet) and it's looked great, once again much better than a DVX100 would. On the other hand, he was using Vegas and I'm using Avid. Maybe FCP just has downconverting problems (though i tend to doubt it).
 
I have never seen blockiness unless I was doing a extremely compressed h.264 file. I am running 5.1.1 but started with the HVX & 5.0.4. Try using compressor on a small segment (using the in and out points on the timeline) where it normally gets blocky.

Some people create a SD 50 (dvcpro50 timeline) and drag the HD timeline into that. FCP will downconvert and you can create the DVD from that. I have done tests with this compared to straight to the DVD from the HD timeline and the difference isnt much.
 
I was just about to that as my next step, It is just that DVD SP was taking a long time to transcrib it, and I thought that after waiting, it may flash an error that the bit-rate was too high (for the uncompressed footage). I didn't want to wait over an hour, just to have that error show up, but I may try if I don't get any other suggestions.

So, is this blockyness just expected (and accepted!?!) when cutting HVX footage to a DVD? On some shots it was horrible, on others, it seems on shots with more even texture, was a bit better.

This is a commercial I am working on for broadcast. If I give the station the DVD for broadcast, is this the way it will show up for the tv audiences who wil be watching it?
What is the best way to hand-off a commercial that was shot with the HVX?
 
^
We really need a sense of how blocky it is. Are you sure you just aren't ticked because it doesn't look as good as the HD stuff? It should look as good as or better than DVX footage transfered to a DVD.

As for the best way to hand it off, it really depends what the studio wants to do wtih it. Part of the problem is that most of us don't have HD-DVD or Blue Ray burners yet. I'd love to just cart it to people on an external HD but that probably isn't practical.
 
It's pretty bad, the blockyness, that is. It is a commercial of kids talking on a black pysch background. The edges of their shirts against the black have a highly jagged outline. It seems the wider the shot, the blocker the subject, perhaps because more detail is happening. And maybe the more contrast that is happening, hence the jagged line on the subjects' outline. But I see fairly-large blocks on their faces, and they seem to move around a bit. When I am in a Close-Up, for example the side of their cheek, the blockiness goes away. When I view the footage on a SD Monitor hooked up to my FCP, the footage looks prefect, it is just when I burn to a DVD.
 
So the SD version looks OK on the monitor after you've exported it from FCP? You need to determine:

1. If the blockness is coming from FCP downrezzing or from the DVD encoding.
2. If it's really just that blocky or it's just you. Perhaps if you could send us some grabs from the SD DVD, we could give you a better idea.
 
I think you have a common problem that can easily be solved by manipulating your black levels. MPEG compression tends to exaggerate certain noise in dark areas that may be less or unnoticeable in DV footage. Basically, try crushing your blacks a bit in FCP (through, say, the Proc Amp filter) before encoding the problematic footage, and it may just be the solution you need. I've seen this problem primarily in blacks and dark red/woodgrain areas...
 
Hey, I do this all the time - I shoot primarily 720/24pN and all my projects are delivered to DVD. All I do is use the export timeline function of FCP to Compressor and then set for highest quality 90 min and let it go, then drag the files and drop into DVD Studio Pro. Has worked very well and lent itself a very clean image, I am not sure where your blockiness is coming from, but it could be a black issue as posted above. Avoid using quicktime and try to go straight from FCP to Compressor to DSP. Hopefully that helps.
 
What is the total length of the video in minutes?

What is your target and maximum bit rate?

Do you use CBR or two pass VBR?

Have you encoded to AC3/Dolby2, not uncompressed aiff?

What brand blank media?
 
CINEMANIAC said:
Hey, I do this all the time - I shoot primarily 720/24pN and all my projects are delivered to DVD. All I do is use the export timeline function of FCP to Compressor and then set for highest quality 90 min and let it go, then drag the files and drop into DVD Studio Pro. Has worked very well and lent itself a very clean image, I am not sure where your blockiness is coming from, but it could be a black issue as posted above. Avoid using quicktime and try to go straight from FCP to Compressor to DSP. Hopefully that helps.
Click to expand...


There are issues with two pass VBR and spiking in Compressor.

Also, you should convert aiff to Dolby 2 audio.
 
The issue doesn't not seem to be with FCP, but with the encoding in DVD SP.
I don't think it has to do with crushing the blacks, as the blockyness occurs on other areas, my blacks look fine.
I will try going through compressor, usually it always crashes and quits in the middle of compressing on my system, so that is why I have been avoiding it, and going through quicktime conversion. Aren't they the same thing? Do you think Compressor will make that much of a difference and solve this problem.



David S. said:
There are issues with two pass VBR and spiking in Compressor.

Also, you should convert aiff to Dolby 2 audio.
Click to expand...
So, I shouldn't use two pass VBR? Should I use singel pass?

...and I checked my HDTV for any cockroaches bugging around in the system, so I have already ruled that out.
 
There is an issue with two pass VBR that causes spikes in maximum bit rate.

This could result in what is occurring. But make certain you don't use uncompressed aiff.

What brand of blank media?
 
If you use Compressor with two pass VBR, best setting, average 6 or 7 Mbps max 8 Mbps, you will never have such a problem.

Compressor is a very high quality MPEG2 encoder.
 
Antoine_Fabi said:
If you use Compressor with two pass VBR, best setting, average 6 or 7 Mbps max 8 Mbps, you will never have such a problem.

Compressor is a very high quality MPEG2 encoder.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to argue, but I've seen a bunch reports in Compressor 2 VBR two pass, and spikes at the high end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top