So you have a Red-servation and $20K....

So as long as we're looking at still photo lenses for the time being, does anyone have an opinion (from experience?) how the new Zeiss ZF (Nikon F-mount) primes would compare to the Nikkors?

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8e8ae439a3fd6101c125711b005a77c4

Currently only the 50mm (500 USD)and 85mm (1000 USD) are available, but more lenses will be announced in Fall, so they'd probably be available when RED hits the streets.

Thanks for any insight.

Barend
 
Great thread.

Let me put another thought on this subject: I've recently started using still lenses for cinematography, now that I have an M2, and there is a lot of difficulty of pulling focus with them, something that will only get harder in HD. Their barrel movement is far from perfect, the scales are kind of bad, you name it.

The Redrock Follow Focus seem like a great addition to a set of still lenses but I'm yet to try it.

I'm still waiting on RED's zoom, or a cine equivalent, even though used zoom, for an all purpose lens, and when I get a RED, I'll probably start calling my camera rental shop much more often, for their sets of master primes.

I'm not diching th idea of still lenses, but I have to say that they are far from an ideal scenario.

Cheers!
 
There are definately trade offs to still lenses. The scales deninately need to be re-marked. The Red Rock followfocus gears make the task much easier.


The Zeiss ZFs look to be very sharp and probably better than their Nikkor equivelents, but probably not by enough to justify thier price diffrence unless you just have to have that red T*.
 
Jarred Land said:
Sigma lenses are kinda a bad idea when you go past 8 megapixels.

Its interesting.. im in the market for a brand new camera right now and i suddenly find myself thinking about switching from Canon to Nikon... That 18-200 may just be a dealbreaker.. if i can find it.
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I have Sigma 15-30 EX and 70-300APO. And before you start :kali: I bought the second one just for the fun of having so enormously flexible lens (using EOS 10D its 1.6X) without having any expectesions. Boy I was wrong ! It apears that both of these lenses are great. They are sharp, providing rich colors with great boken. As for the 15-30 I think that it is one of the best lenses around for its optical range. I often use the 70-300 as my main head portait lens, and now you can start :kali: !
When I was analog I was on Nikon side, now that I soot digital I am with Canon all the way, its not only about lenses, but as it goes with any tools that is because that is best for my needs. Anyhow I suggest like evin said that you and anyone else that is not convinced should try Sigma out.
I will defenlty use my 15-30 in the future with adaptor and my FX1E and I don't beleive that past 8 megapixels will do anything else to my image then adding more resolution !

best
Andreas
 
What's the focus throw like on the AFS 17-35mm F2.8? The only reason I can think to get the primes instead is if there's more control with manual focus.
 
Jannard said:
There will be other mounts in addition to PL. Nikon is one of them. The EOS lenses are fine optically, but there is no manual aperture control. And we will NOT have controlling electronics for these type of lenses. I agree with Jarred on the older Nikon lenses. But older Canon manual lenses will do well also.

We have shot footage using a Canon lens, a Nikon lens, a Zeiss lens and a Cooke S4. There is a difference. You just have to decide your pain threshold to your wallet.

And remember, there are RED lenses coming. Even though our 300mm is not your typical "1st lens", it is wicked sharp, and Cine quality. Truly a great buy at less than $5k. Our zoom will be announced sometime soon.

Jim
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I have some top Canon & Nikon lenses so i guess if & when i get the RED i'l be ready to shoot. Though i'd love to be able to use my Canon Lenses aswell as i will have more Canon than Nikon lenses.

Jim is there no way we can use Canon Lenses those that dont have manual aperture? excuse my ignorance but may be some sort of Red adapter that can handel that which may or may not be placed between the lens & the Camera?? If Red dont go to develop it i think Canon should take notice otherwise people will be heading to Nikon lenses to start shooting with RED (Well until RED comes with its super dooper zoom lens that is).

Though all these options look good if the Red Zoom lens is affordabe & in the price range of the equivelent Canon or Nikon with same performance i'd go with it (probably selling some of my current lenses?? ) only because i personaly feel it will be optimized for use with RED & may actually provide better features too. I just hope it will be affordable (under $3000?)
 
Barend Onneweer said:
So as long as we're looking at still photo lenses for the time being, does anyone have an opinion (from experience?) how the new Zeiss ZF (Nikon F-mount) primes would compare to the Nikkors?

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/8e8ae439a3fd6101c125711b005a77c4

Currently only the 50mm (500 USD)and 85mm (1000 USD) are available, but more lenses will be announced in Fall, so they'd probably be available when RED hits the streets.

Thanks for any insight.

Barend
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Actually it would be more like:

499.14 Euro = 642.337 USD

Not bad at all for a primo 50mm Zeiss *T1.4
 
Andreas said:
I have made this post a while ago:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=57117
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Hmm i guess thats one way of doing it but it has serious limitations, say you have to change aperture between shots it just seems like an extra work swaping the lens to a Canon Body just to get the desired aperture. I'd stick with Nikon lens if thats the case they are great too, its just that i will have a larger collection of Canon lenses, well i can sell & buy Nikon or better buy the RED zoom lens if that fits the job & is affordable. Who knows i might just be able to buy the RED lens without having to sell any of my precious lenses :love4:

One great thing about RED is that is about 5 times (in terms of resolution/frame rate/dynamic range/... etc well still onpaper!) better & costs 1/5th of say a Sony F900...now if & only if RED can make a lens thats 5 times better than the best lens out there & costing 1/5th wow! i'd be amazed. They say Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS USM is as good as it gets with zoom lenses in that range & thats a good £1300 lens, If the next RED lens is that great or better (obviously its going to be a standard zoom & not telephoto) in terms of sharpness, contrast, low light capability & image quality & costs in that range i.e £1000-£1500 it will be as big a hit as the RED ONE camera itself.

Imagine people trying to find adapters to fit the RED lens on their 17.## Canon Eos 1DS MarkII as thers nothing that comes close to the RED lens in terms of price/performance. Now thats a wishful thinking innit !
 
razamalik said:
One great thing about RED is that is about 5 times (in terms of resolution/frame rate/dynamic range/... etc well still onpaper!) better & costs 1/5th of say a Sony F900...now if & only if RED can make a lens thats 5 times better than the best lens out there & costing 1/5th wow! i'd be amazed. They say Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS USM is as good as it gets with zoom lenses in that range & thats a good £1300 lens, If the next RED lens is that great or better (obviously its going to be a standard zoom & not telephoto) in terms of sharpness, contrast, low light capability & image quality & costs in that range i.e £1000-£1500 it will be as big a hit as the RED ONE camera itself.
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As you're already convinced that the as yet unfinished and untested RED camera is about "5 times better" and costs 1/5 the price of a Sony F900, why not go all the way and be convinced that RED lenses will be 5 times better and cost 1/5th of the best lenses available? Perhaps these ratios can be applied to all things RED.
 
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Greg Lowry said:
As you're already convinced that the as yet unfinished and untested RED camera is about "5 times better" and costs 1/5 the price of a Sony F900, why not go all the way and be convinced that RED lenses will be 5 times better and cost 1/5th of the best lenses available? Perhaps these ratios can be applied to all things RED.
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Lol. We hope.

A Zeiss Digizoom (new) goes for around $40K, and the new S4's higher.

So, by that formula RED's zoom should be ($40K divided by 5 =) $8K smackeroos :)

What if I think that RED will be 10 times less expensive, yet comparable in quality to the big boys ? then, Voila! $4K. !!!

Frankly, after lens shopping these last few weeks, if RED comes up with a cinezoom anywhere near that, then a couple bottles of Dom that I have saved (one for RED's arrival) will be promptly mailed to Oakely headquarters care of Jim Jannard - Revolutionary Azz kicker...
RED # wish I was higher
 
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Greg Lowry said:
As you're already convinced that the as yet unfinished and untested RED camera is about "5 times better" and costs 1/5 the price of a Sony F900, why not go all the way and be convinced that RED lenses will be 5 times better and cost 1/5th of the best lenses available? Perhaps these ratios can be applied to all things RED.
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bro if you read carefully i said some thing that would have answered your question i shall repeat if you missed it the last time.... i said "well still on paper" & "IF & ONLY IF THEY WOULD MAKE SUCH A LENS" so that explaisn what i said no? plus from the reports of HDinfo & our very own Jarred Land seeing pictures coming off Mysterium sensors being all that FAB i do certaily beleive & hope it will blow the likes of F900 away. I dont think we should be comparing it with F900 as this (When it finally comes) would be a camera of a different league altogather.

Ok am no expert on how lenses are made im just a user right? but what i have learnt is that good lenses cost as much as they cost for a number of reasons & no i dont expect RED to deliver a 5 times better lens at 1/5 the price i just said imagine how amazing would that be... nothing wrong with being a little optimistic is there?

& if you followed along you would have read that i talked about a good Canon 70-200 f2.8 lens & said even if the next Red lens compares well to this lens in terms of image quality/performance/price it will do very very good...

looking at the price on the 300mm RED (again on paper) it compares well to the equivalent lenses fron Nikon & Canon.

Lenses are expensive i know but they hold their price pretty well too even in second hand market, just look at the DSLR market a two year old camera drops good 60-70% in price where as a good decent lens will still hold its price damn well compared to a digital camera. So NO that ratio may not practically be applied to all things RED, but may be it can be who knows what Jim & his team are upto, they might give ya a surprise just the way they will when they show ya the images from that chip.

All am saying is stop being too negative & picky... the future should be bright :love4:
 
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Sometimes the grand, declarative, and categorical statements become too extreme to ignore. And of course you missed my point. My comment wasn't so much about lenses as about your 5x better for 5x less pronouncement which is entirely unsupported by anything but wild speculation. That I find such statements to be silly doesn't mean I don't support the RED effort. You are, of course, free to think or say whatever you want, however silly.
 
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One might hope that Contax glasses could fill in the focal length gaps of the Zeiss ZF lenses, but I think the focus and aperture rings on Contax lenses rotate in the opposite direction to the Zeiss ZFs. Inconvenient.
 
Greg Lowry said:
One might hope that Contax glasses could fill in the focal length gaps of the Zeiss ZF lenses, but I think the focus and aperture rings on Contax lenses rotate in the opposite direction to the Zeiss ZFs. Inconvenient.
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What do you think of the Leica M lenses (M mount) made for the Zeiss Icon Rangefinder Greg ? And how would they (hypothetically) do on RED ?


RED # wish I was higher
 
Over time we expect to offer many lens mounts. But in the beginning, expect PL, Nikon and Canon manual. We are fully supportive of 3rd parties beating us to the punch in offering other mounts. By the fall of 2007, our hope is that there will be a mount for almost any lens that makes sense.
 
Those lenses are fabulous. I have a bunch. And the new Zeiss M-mount lenses for the Zeiss-Ikon rangefinder camera are another source of great M-mount glass. The difficulty in using them on the RED is the short flange focal plane distance of those lenses. As they're not retrofocus lenses designed for reflex cameras, they have a simpler design with fewer elements. This can and generally does enhance sharpness and contrast and allows the lenses to be mounted closer to the focal plane. The lens flange is much closer to the focal plane for M-mount lenses (approximately 50% closer than a PL mount lens -- roughly 28mm v. 52mm). A modification to the camera may be required to use rangefinder lenses otherwise the lens would literally be inside the lens cavity to get close enough to the focal plane. Let's hope that RED already has a solution to this in the works. I'd personally love to see an M-mount option on the RED, but I suppose this will be determined by demand.

Addendum: the above was written prior to seeing Jim's post. He answered the question about "when".
 
Greg Lowry said:
Sometimes the grand, declarative, and categorical statements become too extreme to ignore. And of course you missed my point. My comment wasn't so much about lenses as about your 5x better for 5x less pronouncement which is entirely unsupported by anything but speculation. That I find such statements to be silly doesn't mean I don't support the RED effort. You are, of course, free to say whatever you want, however silly.
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Thanks for your comments friend, oh yeah free i am to say what i want & it may sound silly to you & on the other hand whatever you may say might sound the same to me i.e silly.

The current price for F900 in Uk at creativevideo.co.uk is around £66,670.00 & the RED cam's price (when it comes obviously) is said to be $17,500 which translates to £9,178.57 so i am sorry its actually 7.2636 times cheaper.... so in other words you could get 7 RED ONE cams for the price of one SONY F900 hence theres no speculation on that part, RED has announced a price & as long as Jim & the team is successful i have no doubt the price will be just that (offcourse for the body only).

Now on the IQ side of things guess we will have to wait until we see the images, but as far as i am concerned i have no doubt it will blow away the likes of Sony F900 in every regard... dynamic range, shallow dof, digital caputre, ability to use slr lenses, 4K 60P, 2k, 1080P, 720P.... the list can probaly go on.. its gonna have a 35mm size sensor so you can probably imagine how it will perform in comparisen to a 2/3"...

I have already answered that 5x better thing twice & if you still dont get my point you can forget about it, as you never will get it but as a gesture of kindness & last effort on my part i'd ask you to kindly go back with a cool mind and read in the brackets where it says "well still on the paper". Now we can agree to disagree if it is infact that times better or not but i just shared my opinion from where i see things & to be honest i really dont see any reason for you to get all that touchy.

peace.
 
Thanks for the clarification Jim and Greg :beer:

That makes sense.

I guess you aim for the most common quality deliverable mounts first. I guess I'll wait a bit before buying a set of lenses, regardless, unless something pops up ...


RED # wish I was higher
 
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