Canon Unveils New Prosumer HDV Line: XH G1 and XH A1

The way I see it Canon must have had these HDV cameras ready for a long time and they were waiting for the right time. Since AVC is on the verge of showing up they thought they shouldn't take any chances and let it all go to waste, so they simply started selling their HDV cams anyway.

(you're right, Emanuel, Rafa=Rafael)

P.S - I would have felt much better if I had found a different anouncement...say...a Panasonics or Sony AVC-HD progressive camera ;-)
 
Então, eu diria não só os europeus mas os portugueses tomam conta da casa.

So, I would say not just the european ones but also the portuguese are taking care of our beloved common home.
 
Hey, Emanuel, what did you do to get that cool nick name (cross-examiner)? I want some like that too. It could be something like Spanish Fly or The Boy from Ipanema ;-)

P.S - Half Portuguese (father) and half brazilian (mother)...which is extremely relevant for this thread (actualy I think it's the first thing they mention on the Canon press release) :D
 
rawfa said:
Hey, Emanuel, what did you do to get that cool nick name (cross-examiner)? I want some like that too. It could be something like Spanish Fly or The Boy from Ipanema ;-)
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Rafael, tu mereces!/you deserve it! Jarred?

P.S - Half Portuguese (father) and half brazilian (mother)...which is extremely relevant for this thread (actualy I think it's the first thing they mention on the Canon press release) :D
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The portuguese are everywhere and rocking too! :laugh:
 
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I don't know about AVC-HD,,,sounds good but who knows when we will see one on a DVX or a Sony FX or a Z1U. I know some people are saying once AVC comes out HVD is dead. But if it is that good I guess you can say the same thing about camera's like the DVX100. A standard def camera. They will be total worthless right? No I kind of doubt it and neither will HVD stuff. I've seen some some really good stuff on HVD and I don't think companies like Canon just sit on stuff and then get caught off guard by a new format like AVC-HD. Maybe they have looked at it and think it is nothing more than a consumer format.


Let's see in the next few months if Sony or Panasonic are sitting on something. Give me more choices.
 
Zim said:
I don't know about AVC-HD,,,sounds good but who knows when we will see one on a DVX or a Sony FX or a Z1U. I know some people are saying once AVC comes out HVD is dead. But if it is that good I guess you can say the same thing about camera's like the DVX100. A standard def camera. They will be total worthless right? No I kind of doubt it and neither will HVD stuff. I've seen some some really good stuff on HVD and I don't think companies like Canon just sit on stuff and then get caught off guard by a new format like AVC-HD. Maybe they have looked at it and think it is nothing more than a consumer format.


Let's see in the next few months if Sony or Panasonic are sitting on something. Give me more choices.
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Zim when you're saying HVD you want to mean HDV right? If not, someone might come up and claim any similarity with the Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD)... :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

EDIT -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc
 
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HVD is the new sony format. It stands for Hurtful Venereal Disease. Whatch out. It is extremely contagious and it represents a danger to your projects. :D Aparently they replaced the CMOS ccd by a new one called SHAMELESS (it captures only the images it feels like it).

P.S - I'm the proud owner of a FX1 :D
 
I don't understand why A1 is so much more expensive in Japan. It's like $5000 here which is the same price as for the HVX. >_<
 
I say this for it AVC-HD sounds great. I'll take a look at it when it drops. But HDV is already set and has an infrastructure. I can get on an FCP 5/FCP Express HD ready computer and get to work.

As for Canon 24f, knowing Apple they'll will be ready for these two cams soon enough (probably by the time I'm ready to buy one). Can these go to a Firestore and do tape back up at the same time is my question. If this camera works I can make HD DVDs and would really have no use for anything else right now unless I need to do blue screening or something and need a richer format. And considering this camera does DV also it's what I've been waiting for. Unless Sony can up this cam by bringing some AVC or HDV with a comparable 24p/f mode Canon's on my hot list.

Another thing I find irratating is HDV is widely excepted and we should stop pretending it's no good when at this point in time we know it's very viable. Is it the best of the best? No. Is it good enough for indie films and even film outs? Damn straight.

You ever go to the JVC seminar for their HD100? I wouldn't know it wasn't film unless you told me. It wasn't grainy and it looked great. Now I haven't seen it in a large theater but if DV can play to large crowds and gain exceptance (21 days later) then why can't this.

Also I was under the understanding that FCP 5.1 had basic support for the XL-H1 so wouldn't it have that same support for these? What can't you do in 5.1? Hook me up with some info guys.

-Nate
 
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You can't properly capture 24F, only 1080i 60/50. (25F works within 1080i50, actually)

It's because FCP demuxes on the fly and haven't yet integrated built-in recognition of the true 24p encoding of Canon HDV 24F mode yet. They showcased support for 24F capture at NAB, so obviously this is a done deal...but you know Apple. THey have to make it part of their thunder for FCP6. The current XL-H1 support is just a lame renamed addition to what already worked in normal HDV mode. FCP 5 recognized the H1 with Sony HDV device control in 1080i mode, but with 24F when you tried to do the normal capture routine within FCP it would skip literally 6 fps in the window. Basically it was seeing the 24p and then stuttering until 6 frames would pass (to make 29.97 fps) and then repeat again and again. It's totally unuseable.

Guess what? There are 2 utility programs that have no problem capturing 24F transport streams. (.m2t's)

Here's how I work with 24F and FCP. (intermediate editing...like CineForm)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=492340&postcount=7
 
Now that I really think about it Canon buys CCDs from Sony so I guess they're not really gunning for them are they?

-Nate
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Wasn't the Xl1 CCD's from Panasonic ? Have they switched too Sony now ?
 
John_Hudson said:
Wasn't the Xl1 CCD's from Panasonic ? Have they switched too Sony now ?
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From Pana? With those noiseless & lowlighting properties?! I'm afraid not!!...

Sorry John!!! I couldn't resist... :cheesy:
 
Emanuel said:
From Pana? With those noiseless & lowlighting properties? I'm afraid not!...

Sorry John! I couldn't resist... :cheesy:
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You should though. The XL1's CCDs were from Panasonic. And I'm still curious as to why you think the XLH1 is noiseless.

Here's an example: Scott Billups shot the Viper next to the XLH1.
Here's the Viper shot:
http://www.cineform.com/downloads-other/Car-Viper.zip
And here's the Canon shot:
http://www.cineform.com/downloads-other/Car-Canon.zip

Compare those two. Look at the noiselessness of the Viper, as compared to all the grain on the Canon shot, especially on the building, the mountains, the sky -- that's noise. I'm not saying it's any worse than any of the other 1/3" HD camcorders, but come on, it's hardly "noiseless". The Sony is the only one that can make any sort of claim as to being "noiseless."
 
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I'm willing to see how it all pans out. Honestly I would buy a Panasonic camera that would have an HDV style codec and offers a choice of DV tape or Direct to Disc capacity for all of it's options. The HVX still has a tape deck for DV so it's not completely tapeless. Here's an idea, an ultimate HVX. Keep the HVX the way it is but simply add the ability to also record in this new ACV codec on tape (like it does DV) and on P2 and I'd be on it like white on rice. Or get rid of the tape deck totally and drop the price by a grand. I would buy 2 4gig P2 card (a 4 gig P2 card would store about a 2 hours of footage like a DVD which uses MPEG 2 also, tell me if I'm wrong here) and I work with that. Even if it just gave me 45 minutes I could work with that.

Why has Canon (nor anyone) made a 3 chip DV/HDV DVD camera? I mean DVDs are 4gigs right and dual layer DVDs are 8 gigs. Give it funtionality like Sony's XD cam and give P2 and XDCam a small run for it's money. DVDs are so cheap now it's stupid that no one thought of this. I should open a camera company. Even if you get only 45 minutes per DVD I bought DVDs from staples for about $7 (if I remember correctly) on sale for a pack of 50 or so. Beats the hell out of 5 DV tapes for $24. Plus this would drive down the price of dual layer and double sided DVDs.

Honestly, I don't know about all these codecs but one thing I have to admit is the flip out screen on the top is the design of the future. I wanted to go for a shoulder mounted system until I saw that. I love that look and if you buy a shoulder brace the screen is right there.

-Nate
 
Elton said:
You can't properly capture 24F, only 1080i 60/50. (25F works within 1080i50, actually)

It's because FCP demuxes on the fly and haven't yet integrated built-in recognition of the true 24p encoding of Canon HDV 24F mode yet. They showcased support for 24F capture at NAB, so obviously this is a done deal...but you know Apple. THey have to make it part of their thunder for FCP6.
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FCP6 will probably be out by Christmas or at least by the time I have money to buy the camera.

-Nate
 
Barry_Green said:
You should though. The XL1's CCDs were from Panasonic. And I'm still curious as to why you think the XLH1 is noiseless.

Here's an example: Scott Billups shot the Viper next to the XLH1.
Here's the Viper shot:
http://www.cineform.com/downloads-other/Car-Viper.zip
And here's the Canon shot:
http://www.cineform.com/downloads-other/Car-Canon.zip

Compare those two. Look at the noiselessness of the Viper, as compared to all the grain on the Canon shot, especially on the building, the mountains, the sky -- that's noise. I'm not saying it's any worse than any of the other 1/3" camcorders, but come on, it's hardly "noiseless".
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You're right too, as usual. Also. In good hands, the HVX will be a great tool indeed. I'll will be waiting for the footage coming from people like Sérgio Perez (SPZ), for example. I'm sure in the right hands it will be rock. But my point is, if we have the two cams in similar situations, maybe I will have a noticeable difference between the two tools.

That Canon vs. Viper comparision is quite impressive: $10,000 1/3" vs. $100,000 2/3"!

IMHO, the HVX is lower res and macro blocking but for sure I'm just joking in a friendly way with you my Pana brothers! You know... I love your wise inputs. And I have learned a lot with you, my dear friends!
 
I'd like to take a moment to share an experience with the XL-H1's footage:

I'm doing a project at work that requires us to project footage onto a large wall so that we can record it for a promo. We're using the DVX100 for this and a projector that handles RGB out (My laptop isn't DVI... can't wait to get a Macbook.)

We hadn't the footage we were really going to shoot, yet, so instead I pulled up Robert Sanders's Scene 10 from his movie The Twenty-Third Letter (Which I highly recommend you watch here: http://www.starwaypictures.com/twenty-third/index.html ) NOTE TO ROBERT SANDERS: I did not record your footage or anything, it was simply projected onto a massive wall as stand-in media. I hope I did not offend.

There are seven people standing in this studio while we project it, and I used quicktime to run the stream in presentation mode.

I swear, if you've ever seen XL H1 footage projected then you already know, it was absolutely gorgeous. And every single person in the studio assumed that it was film, not digital, until I said that it was footage from a Canon XLH1 minus adapter.

I'm sure this goes for the HVX as well, and I'm going to find someone's hi-res file to try it out my damned self... but... just. Wow. At this point, does it really matter what codec you're using? That's not a rhetoric, I mean... would I have seen different/better if it were originally 4:2:2 uncompressed? Or is it just another reason to waylay on getting out and shooting with what's available and affordable to you?

And that was the 480p file being projected. I don't even think it'd matter if I tried the 720p, but I'm going to try to fill the wall in the studio later.

For those of you who haven't viewed footage from the HVX and XLH1 on a CRT or projected? Sucks to be you.

I'm going to project the Filmout Footage from the JVC now while everyone's on break.
 
Kholi said:
I'd like to take a moment to share an experience with the XL-H1's footage:

I'm doing a project at work that requires us to project footage onto a large wall so that we can record it for a promo. We're using the DVX100 for this and a projector that handles RGB out (My laptop isn't DVI... can't wait to get a Macbook.)

We hadn't the footage we were really going to shoot, yet, so instead I pulled up Robert Sanders's Scene 10 from his movie The Twenty-Third Letter (Which I highly recommend you watch here: http://www.starwaypictures.com/twenty-third/index.html ) NOTE TO ROBERT SANDERS: I did not record your footage or anything, it was simply projected onto a massive wall as stand-in media. I hope I did not offend.
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It was useful my previous comparision, hein?...

#167
Emanuel said:
My best HVX find:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=64147

One of my best Canon's finds:
http://www.starwaypictures.com/twenty-third/index.html
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#188
Kholi said:
Omfg.

I just had a chance to view the STARWAY PICTURES SCENE 10 file on my television via DVI out to 32" Samsung CRT HDTV ....

Omfg. That image was so freaking sick.

I've seen it on my Dell Laptop, which looked okay. THen 30" Cinema HD, which looked eye popping...

CRT blew them all out of the water. Just, wow.

What I didn't notice, though, was the BETACAM SP box on the ground. That was too funny.
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I'm glad for you. :)
 
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