Canon Announces New Cameras

AVC HD sounds great, but it might have its own teething problems just like HDV had at the beginning. I love the idea that there (hopefully) will be Nvidia or ATI cards that will accelerate encode/decodes but that is a seriously Moore's law dependent algorithm. We can talk all day long about efficiency, but I have my suspicions that AVC will also have some motion artifact possibilites, just like HDV has here and there.

It's still hyper-compressed inter-frame voodoo no matter how you look at it.
 
Elton said:
It's still hyper-compressed inter-frame voodoo no matter how you look at it.
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That it is. That it undoubtedly, definitely is.

I think AVC-HD will be better than HDV in that regard but it is still a low-bitrate long-GOP codec system. AVC-Intra is the name Panasonic's attached to their 50-megabit intraframe only system, and that doesn't have voodoo. So no, I don't think AVC-HD is the ultimate panacea format; I just think that if people are already willing to accept long-gop "hyper-compressed inter-frame voodoo", then they should be thrilled with more-efficient, full-raster, native-24p, uncompressed-audio, cross-platform-compatible hyper-compressed inter-frame voodoo... :thumbsup:

As for when a decent AVC-HD camcorder will show up ... no true clue. I will say that I am quite surprised that Sony didn't announce an AVC-HD FX2 as their first AVC-HD product. Their first DV camcorder was the VX1000, their first HDV product was the FX1, so it just seemed very fitting that their first AVC-HD product would be along the same lines (i.e., an FX2). But instead they put out some comparatively "toy" cameras. As for Panasonic, they haven't said one word about when or what they'll introduce, only that they'll be introducing cameras based on recording to SD memory cards. My guess is we'll see product on store shelves from both manufacturers in time for this winter's holiday season.
 
Douglas Spotted Eagle did indicate that he have known about the AVCHD format for months and also knows about other Sony AVCHD camcorders that haven’t been announced yet. Is he that legitimate? Barry Green has just as much credit as Douglas but you don’t see Panasonic spilling the beans to Barry Green about their future products.

I don’t understand either why Sony would not want to replace the HDV format.
This may actually mean that Sony could be using 35MBPS MP2 for their next Z1u, just like XD CAM.


I hope in August you will see both Panasonic and Sony announce more camcorders. Also Canon may announce a successor to the GL2 within several days.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Their first DV camcorder was the VX1000, their first HDV product was the FX1, so it just seemed very fitting that their first AVC-HD product would be along the same lines (i.e., an FX2). But instead they put out some comparatively "toy" cameras. As for Panasonic, they haven't said one word about when or what they'll introduce, only that they'll be introducing cameras based on recording to SD memory cards. My guess is we'll see product on store shelves from both manufacturers in time for this winter's holiday season.
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Indeed anyway, they must be very attentive in order not to harm their HVX or XDCAM-HD sales.
 
Camera Expert said:
Douglas Spotted Eagle did indicate that he have known about the AVCHD format for months and also knows about other Sony AVCHD camcorders that haven’t been announced yet. Is he that legitimate? Barry Green has just as much credit as Douglas but you don’t see Panasonic spilling the beans to Barry Green about their future products.

I don’t understand either why Sony would not want to replace the HDV format.
This may actually mean that Sony could be using 35MBPS MP2 for their next Z1u, just like XD CAM.


I hope in August you will see both Panasonic and Sony announce more camcorders. Also Canon may announce a successor to the GL2 within several days.
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wow someone's told you way more than you should know ha ha ha ... careful the sony police are gonna decend from helicopters when your sleeping and steal you from bed.
 
Jarred Land,

The part about future AVCHD camcorders sounded misleading. I should have said he knows about future Sony camcorders.

 
You got way to many companies trying to be like Apple now by keeping everything secret. They either don’t want to jeopardize their sales of previous camcorders or they don’t want the competition to know what their doing.
 
Camera Expert said:
They either don’t want to jeopardize their sales of previous camcorders or they don’t want the competition to know what their doing.
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Exactly how does this not make business sense?
 
Camera Expert said:
Jarred Land,

The part about future AVCHD camcorders sounded misleading. I should have said he knows about future Sony camcorders.
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yes... he is very close with sony and a sony advocate.. i knew what you meant :)
 
Camera Expert said:
I hope in August you will see both Panasonic and Sony announce more camcorders. Also Canon may announce a successor to the GL2 within several days.
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If that happens, in either of the three manufacterer's cases...

...geez.

I mean, if Canon sets this pricepoint for the A1 at 4k...

Then that pretty much IS the limbo bar. And we're all the party people watching those three trying to best each other.

I haven't felt this good about blowing four-thousand dollars since... wait I've never blown four-thousand dollars at one time before. w00pee.
 
Sooooo... Back to the who A1 and G1 thing, rather than the whole stewing on the future thing, will the A1 definitely have the xlr jacks on it? Or is that what the jack pack is on the G1?

Every time i think i have my mind made up about which camera to get, something comes to change my mind.
 
Kholi said:
XLR Jacks are on both cameras.

The Jack Pack is basically an SDI/Uncomressed HD out option.
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How much better quality would that be compared to the 4,000 camera if you outed to uncompressed HD?
 
bballplaya283 said:
How much better quality would that be compared to the 4,000 camera if you outed to uncompressed HD?
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That's a question for Barlow.

I'm sure he has comparison clips of uncompressed H1 footage and the lot.

But it's safe to say that there's a significant difference between the two.
 
bballplaya283 said:
How much better quality would that be compared to the 4,000 camera if you outed to uncompressed HD?
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That's a question I've been spending some time answering for myself, and the answer is...mixed.

Short answer: SDI and HDV are surprisingly very close in terms of the quality of the raw image output, but there's loads of latitude for cc and heavy post processing with SDI raw signal recording to more robust intra-frame codecs. (Sheer, CineForm, PhotoJPEG) You can push the image to extremes in post without inducing blockies, whereas with HDV, although surprisingly decent to work with when converted to a good intermediate codec...there's still a subtle richness to the SDI image that's undeniable. And of course, SDI contains no compression-induced motion artifacts whatsoever. 24F rarely has any kind of trouble; still it's possible to overwhelm the codec in the most extreme of circumstances. But I'm talking about super-anal stuff that you have to pause on a frame and magnify to notice.

Put it this way: Discovery HD Theater has no problem with SDI recordings of the XL-H1 image, but will possibly quibble with broadcasting HDV unless the post process is immaculate. (onlined to uncompressed rather than HDV tape).

Just to be fair, Discovery is also a little prejudiced against the HVX for full acquisition...not because of the recording format but because of the optical performance of the camera. I don't say that to start another debate...look it up on their producer requirements. Just google "Discovery HD producer guidelines".

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:BqY7IDi3oYIJ:www.discoverychannel.ca/_includes/disclaimer/producers_guide/docs/HDSpec.logo.doc+Discovery+HD+producer+guidelines&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1&client=safari

I'll post a few images later on comparing SDI to HDV output of a recorded scene. One nice thing about the H1 is that you can roll HDV tape (or to a firestore via firewire) while also recording the live uncompressed SDI output simultaneously.
 
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If all you want is the uncompressed signal, it' s also possible to record the analog HD output into said codecs via analog/SDI converters or an HD capture card like the Blackmagic extreme or AJA Xena/Kona. The quality will be basically identical to the SDI.

An A1 and a converter/capture card could do the job and give you a great image, but it won't be nearly as convenient as embedded tc/audio/video SDI that the G1 offers.
 
Barlow, the question is to know if it deserves $3,000?

Who knows when we will have a recorder device?... And it wouldn't be necessary an uncompressed solution -- a 10-bit Cineform one it would be fine! But when?

Your link (that we already know but it's always time to remember) is useful in order to see how the HDV is a non-broadcast format. The uncompressed option would be an interesting alternative but I'm asking to myself if the conversion via analog/HD-SDI converts will be noticeable comparing with HD-SDI capture.
 
Emanuel said:
Barlow, the question is to know if it deserves $3,000?
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IMHO, yes.

You have to consider that the G1 goes beyond HDV. It can give you a practical option to record even better HD quality to any format that works for you, or it can be a useful, professionally workable camera on a multi-cam shoot.

Gotta love options.
 
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