The old/new 1080i 24p vs 24pa and Final Cut Issue

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dvInsight

Well-known member
I've searched the this site and others and still get confused, and yes I know I should just get Barry's book. But......

I have been happily using my HVX in 720 24pn ever since I got it. Mostly because it looked great to me and I only had a 4gb P2 to work with when I purchased it.

Now I have a job in front of me that requests that I deliver the finished project in 1080i 24p on D5 or HDCAM. I have solved the last part and found a company that will take my finished file and dump it to tape, so far so good.

So for the first time I have to decide which 1080i mode to record in based on the above spec. This is never going out to film. It will be used on HD Plasma and LCD displays off of the D5 or HDCAM. So I want to maintain a 24 frame cadence. Do I shoot 24p or 24pa?

I have Final Cut 5.04, yes I can upgrade to 5.1.1 if I need to do so. But what is my setup look like. Do I start out with a 1080i/60 Easy setup and then modify it to 23.98? Do I remove the pull down in Cinema Tools? Can I get there from here?

I know from reading this board that there is an optimum solution. My head just has not connected all the dots yet.

So some work flow tipswould be great.

Thanks,

Rob
 
Maybe stay w/ 720pN...

Maybe stay w/ 720pN...

First off, if you love 720pN and are experienced with it, I'd run a test of up-resing it after the fact. A friend of mine who is far more into the HVX than me has said that shooting at 720p and then just using FCP to up-res after the fact to 1080 holds up great. So I'd start up with some tests of that and see if the client will sign off on that. Also would preserve that extra shooting time for you.

Otherwise shoot in 1080i/24pA. Advanced pulldown yields better image results. I think even the HVX 200 manual says that if I remember correctly. Then just use FCP's included DVCPro 1080i sequence preset I believe. I don't have an FCP station accessible right now, so I can't double check that, if someone else could confirm...

Oh also, do upgrade to FCP 5.1.1 before you start ingesting any HVX materials. I forget what the issue, but there is a pretty well known/discussed issue that can occur if you don't have 5.1.1 (its mentioned around here and various other boards).

cheers.
 
dvInsight said:
...Do I start out with a 1080i/60 Easy setup and then modify it to 23.98? Do I remove the pull down in Cinema Tools? Can I get there from here?
Click to expand...

Rob,
Yes, do that exactly. Depending on your hardware, you may or may not get RT performance with a non-standard Sequence set-up. The pull-down will be when you ingest the P2 data (you'll REALLY want 5.1.1 for this). The P2 import window has a box to check to do the pull-down. No need to use Cinema Tools for it. Yes, you can get there from here. Pesonally, I'd stick with 720p24. It'll look pretty much as good, just an easier work flow.
-Ben
 
If you shoot 1080i/24pA, when you import P2 into FCP select the "Remove duplicate/adv. pull-down frames" checkbox. Import all your clips/cards that you need to. Once everything is imported, select all the clips in your bin that needs to be converted from 29.98 frames to 23.98. Then select "Cinema Tools Reverse Telecine" in the Tools menu. This will batch remove the duplicate frames and give you 23.98 fps for all the clips that were selected. This is what I've been doing with my tests and with the clips from our first shoot of our feature yesterday. Why you check that box on import and it doesn't remove them all for you automatically I don't know. This seems to work well though.
 
I've used the pull-down in the P2 import and have never had to use Cinema Tools to do anything else. If you're doing 1080 and need an alternative frame rate (remember, 1080/24 is non-standard, so there is no pull-down for 1080/24), ignore the advanced pull-down in the P2 import window and use the DVCPRO-HD Frame Rate Converter in 5.1.1. It is designe sepcifically for DVCPRO-HD and if faster and easier than using Cinema Tools. But once you apply the pull-down in import, you can't use the FRC. It's one or the other, not both.

Or you could use Cinema Tools, it works, too.
 
I was referring to 1080 material. The FRC is for 720 material when working with variable frame rates. You'll get an error message when you try the FRC on 1080/24pA. 1080 and 720 are handled differently and he said he'll be working with 1080.
 
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