System requirements for editing RED footage?

Yuval Shrem

Yuval Shrem

Active member
So I understand there will be "RED CODE" which will bridge any codec issues.
That is great!

However, I'm currently restructuring my editing solution and would like to make it RED friendly. What will I need? What are the system requirements?
What kind of computer? capture card? storage speed (raid)? Is the proper equipment out there already, or should I wait until new solutions or newer-faster computers come out?

I need to make some urgent purchasing decisions accordingly...

What should I do? What are the system requirements?
 
Yuval (Hi fellow!) is one of the most interesting users here -- from the strictly INDIE filmmaker's POV and not as cinematographer fanboy geek... he's one of my favourites indeed. So, I hope for an useful answer to both sides (PC and not just Mac) as affordable as possible. Thanks.

Emanuel
 
Hard to give you a precise answer, but given the frame rates, and frame sizes the camera supports, I'd get the biggest beastiest fastest computer you can, mac or pc. And as much hard drive space as you can bring together in one place :-)

Graeme
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Hard to give you a precise answer, but given the frame rates, and frame sizes the camera supports, I'd get the biggest beastiest fastest computer you can, mac or pc. And as much hard drive space as you can bring together in one place :-)

Graeme
Click to expand...

Dear Graeme,

I appreciate the quick response, but I asked very specific questions and your response ignored each and every one of them.

It is obvious that a powerful computer and much storage space are required, however:

1) How fast should be the RAID system?

2) Is any of the computers out on the market today would be enough, or should I wait for newer ones?

3) Which NLE would support the high resolutions of RED (and then again, does any of them supports it in it's current version adding RED-CODE, or will only future versions of NLE software support it?

Also...

4) PC or MAC? (I understand both will support RED, but is any of them going to be a better solution than the other, either from hardware or software aspect)?

5) Any capture card needed? (any exiting cards or only future cards?)

and lastly...

6) monitoring solutions (video monitors & any cards to generate proper output...)


These are my questions.

To be more specific, I'm planing to use multiple simultaneous streams (2-4) of either 2K or 4K at 24fps. (for long-form narrative)
Thanks in advance,

Yuval.
 
Intel Woodcrest out some time in early new year. Will be faster than Intel core duo. Also better to hold on as long as possible on storage re raid.

It is difficult for Graeme to be specific....work in progress and nothing tied down yet.....

Hope that helps. Once the camera is out we will want to re-evauluate our needs computer wise. Pointless just now as things changing so much so fast with computers:(

Michael.
 
Yuval,

Very good questions...all of which have been asked before on this forum, and discussed in previous threads. At the top of this page you'll find a "Search" utility. If you use it correctly, you will find the answers to many of your questions. There is obviously some proprietary info that RED feels is premature to finalize and release. RED is a project in development, and as such they will release info when they feel it is ready for release. If you've been following the development of RED since December, you should realize that RED has been real good at answering questions progressively through the months. You're not the first to ask those questions.

If Graeme or other RED development team members were at liberty to be more specific today, I'm sure they would be.

Get the fastest processor you can, obviously get lots of storage, especially if you plan to do RAW 4:4:4, RED has stated many times on this forum and others that RED will be platform agnostic (use PC or Mac), and there have been lengthy threads on potential monitors that will handle 4k, or 4k scaled down to 2k, etc.

The info you seek, as far as has been released by RED, is beckoning to you on the Search utility...

Hope this helps!

Gibby
RED #8
www.cut4.tv
www.4umat.com
 
Yuval Shrem said:
Dear Graeme,

I appreciate the quick response, but I asked very specific questions and your response ignored each and every one of them.

It is obvious that a powerful computer and much storage space are required, however:

1) How fast should be the RAID system?

2) Is any of the computers out on the market today would be enough, or should I wait for newer ones?

3) Which NLE would support the high resolutions of RED (and then again, does any of them supports it in it's current version adding RED-CODE, or will only future versions of NLE software support it?

Also...

4) PC or MAC? (I understand both will support RED, but is any of them going to be a better solution than the other, either from hardware or software aspect)?

5) Any capture card needed? (any exiting cards or only future cards?)

and lastly...

6) monitoring solutions (video monitors & any cards to generate proper output...)


These are my questions.

To be more specific, I'm planing to use multiple simultaneous streams (2-4) of either 2K or 4K at 24fps. (for long-form narrative)
Thanks in advance,

Yuval.
Click to expand...

1) Uncompressed HD needs around 150MB/s. RED CODE files will be significantly less than that, as they are recorded interally in camera. You might also be using the RED RAID to record much higher rates, up to 1GB/s. That's why it's very hard to give you an answer, as I don't know what your preference will be, and what degree of compression you'll apply. I don't know enough yet to recommend what compression level I'd apply as we're still testing that aspect.

2) I'm sure a top end machine of today would be fine on the PC side. I'd wait for an intel Mac myself as they're going to be quite a bit faster than the current macs. Either way, PC or Mac, I'd wait until nearer the time.

3) 2k support is around. 4k support is expensive at the moment.

4) I'd say they'd be equal, and you should pick whatever you're comfortable with.

5) No - because no capturing. You may want to use something like a Kona for 1080p or 2k monitoring outputs though, or to master to a deck.

6) See above. But I'm thinking the future is DVI out to a large, hi-rez monitor - a computercentric rather than a videocentric approach.

The above is a bit of guesswork - please don't go making expensive purchasing decisions yet until we get some more stuff finalized at RED.

Graeme
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
1) Uncompressed HD needs around 150MB/s. RED CODE files will be significantly less than that, as they are recorded interally in camera. You might also be using the RED RAID to record much higher rates, up to 1GB/s. That's why it's very hard to give you an answer, as I don't know what your preference will be, and what degree of compression you'll apply. I don't know enough yet to recommend what compression level I'd apply as we're still testing that aspect.

2) I'm sure a top end machine of today would be fine on the PC side. I'd wait for an intel Mac myself as they're going to be quite a bit faster than the current macs. Either way, PC or Mac, I'd wait until nearer the time.

3) 2k support is around. 4k support is expensive at the moment.

4) I'd say they'd be equal, and you should pick whatever you're comfortable with.

5) No - because no capturing. You may want to use something like a Kona for 1080p or 2k monitoring outputs though, or to master to a deck.

6) See above. But I'm thinking the future is DVI out to a large, hi-rez monitor - a computercentric rather than a videocentric approach.

The above is a bit of guesswork - please don't go making expensive purchasing decisions yet until we get some more stuff finalized at RED.

Graeme
Click to expand...


Thanks Graeme,

That is very helpful!
I appreciate it.
Good luck with development! We're all very excited about your project.

Yuval.
 
The system requirements would vary depending on the format you shoot. For 1080, you could simply use a 4 drive SATA RAID on an FCP system. For 4k, the only option I know of is the quantel IQ. www.quantel.com The IQ is a very expensive though. You could use pretty much any system to cut offline though and then online just like a normal film. You just might end up in a DI suite instead of an online suite if you shoot 4k.
 
There are other 4K-capable editing systems, including the DVS Clipster. Dalsa uses that system. I recall a thread here where the various 4K-capable systems were listed.
 
<quote>You might also be using the RED RAID to record much higher rates, up to 1GB/s. </quote>

Thanks Graham for getting back to that dude and giving us the inkling of an insight.

Do youse envision the Red Raid being like how we use a camera to capture stuff these days into a suite - ie sitting on the desk beside you connected up?

When are details of the red raid going to be released? Would you need two red raids? One back in the edit suite cutting the film and one recording the next days shoot?

Is it true that the design for the Red Raid looks scarily similar to HAL from 2001?

thanks.

El Stupido
 
I would wait to see what apple comes out with in the next couple months.. im pretty sure they will have some sort of support for 2k in the roadmap ahead and i know that FCP can handle 2k right now.
 
THe OP question was not really answerable properly or fully, so I gave a quick answer to show that I'd seen it, so to speak. As time goes on, we can answer things in more detail.

The RED RAID will be for aquisition - you may want more than one for that purpose, but I don't see you wanting one for the edit suite also. That said, I'm not going to complain if you get one for your suite also... :-) More details as and when we get things finalized. We've got some cool stuff for it lined up.

Graeme
 
kudos for your excellent work.. though this wasn't the subject.. there are other relevant values in the life above all.

as i posted you are who you are.. and a humble man besides our hope. :thumbup:
 
... Well he didn't deny that the RED RAID looked like HAL. That'll do me.

E.S: RED RAID import the scene of a pod bay door.

silence

ES: RED RAID import the pod bay door.

RED RAID: I'm sorry El Stupido, I'm afraid I can't do that. It wouldn't help the feature.

I still don't get where your footage goes for you to edit if you don't have another raid then to edit, but I am happy to wait for the reveal.

El Stupido
 
I think the specs of a portable camera raid are different to that of an NLE raid, so you'd want a different product for each use. That's my thought at the moment, until we refine the RED RAID specs.

Graeme
 
Yuval Shrem said:
Also...

PC or MAC? (I understand both will support RED, but is any of them going to be a better solution than the other, either from hardware or software aspect?
Click to expand...
The PC via will be a suitable solution from modular hardware aspect, that's for sure. And cheaper. The doubt is to know how much?

To be more specific, I'm planing to use multiple simultaneous streams (2-4) of either 2K or 4K at 24fps. (for long-form narrative)
Thanks in advance,

Yuval.
Click to expand...
Same scope and future needs.

EDIT -- I received your PM Yuval. :dankk2: We'll talk soon.
 
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Yuval Shrem said:
1) How fast should be the RAID system?
Click to expand...

HD approx. 150MB/s, 2k about 300MB/sec., 4k about 4times that much. All single stream uncompressed. Guesswork about compression factor from REDcodec ? No idea, maybe 4-5:1.
Do the math and take a look at the current payable speedmasters: e.g. www.hugesystems.com They do 400-500 max. with the bigger systems.

Yuval Shrem said:
2) Is any of the computers out on the market today would be enough, or should I wait for newer ones ?
Click to expand...

You can always wait for newer ones and they will be better. Can you do 2k with a payable,actual system ? Yes, but be sure to make it big. The biggest Mac or a fat **** system. If you're really happy you get 2 streams of 2K. Everything else proxy based or wait for specs of REDcodec.
But better do that:
Graeme_Nattress said:
I'd wait for an intel Mac myself as they're going to be quite a bit faster than the current macs.
Click to expand...

Yuval Shrem said:
3) Which NLE would support the high resolutions of RED
4) PC or MAC?
Click to expand...

Both will do. With whom is Red cooperating ? An AJA engineer is part of the team. Where is Quicktime at home ?

Yuval Shrem said:
6) monitoring solutions (video monitors & any cards to generate proper output...)
Click to expand...

http://www.aja.com/html/products_macintosh_kona_3.html
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/multibridge/

Graeme_Nattress said:
See above. But I'm thinking the future is DVI out to a large, hi-rez monitor - a computercentric rather than a videocentric approach.
Click to expand...

My guess. And save the money.
As there will be no 2k tape recording for the next few days, get a proper HD-mastering solution instead.

Yuval Shrem said:
To be more specific, I'm planing to use multiple simultaneous streams (2-4) of either 2K or 4K at 24fps. (for long-form narrative)
Click to expand...

ChrisBPhoto said:
The system requirements would vary depending on the format you shoot. For 1080, you could simply use a 4 drive SATA RAID on an FCP system. For 4k, the only option I know of is the quantel IQ.
Click to expand...

Even quantel doesn't do 4 streams of 4k. That would be a ball bustin 4GB/sec uncompressed, and even compressed is too much for us all.
 
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