PC/Mac+HVX+ ?NLE? options today ?

A

andy_starbuck

Well-known member
Trying to understand my options:

#1) What's the macbook Pro / HVX story? Is there some kind of Expresscard-to-Cardbus adapter that makes direct P2 possible? Is anyone buying current Apple laptops to edit HVX footage? Or is the story there just to use firewire for everything?

#2) I've seen a bunch of contradictory information. I read that FCP didn't support one of the 1080 modes the HVX will record in. Was this correct? Does the new "cross platform" FCP provide a new 1080 format that wasn't supported before?

#3) What's the story on PC's and Permiere and the HVX? Does Premiere 2.0 handle the HVX DVCPROHD or does it just work with HDV? Does it handle all formats? Does it edit nicely in HD and then downrez to SD okay? I'd heard that HDV-to-SD was s-l-o-w.

#4) What's the alternative for HVX/HD edit on the PC with SD output? Vegas? I keep seeing that "DV Rack is coming but only supports HDV today".

Unfortunately, nobody's website clearly states: "Does not support HVX or DVCPROHD".

Thanks!

Andy
 
Raylight http://dvfilm.com/raylight allows you to edit native DVCPROHD
from the P2 card with either Vegas or Premiere. It's then relatively easy
to export NTSC from the timeline, and there is only one compression
step (when you compress to DV or DVD format). It also has a low-res
proxy feature built-in for laptops with slow disk drives.
 
1) Yes there's an adapter coming, from duel-systems.com. You can also use a P2 Store as a direct pass-thru slot. And yes I'll be getting one as soon as they announce the Core 2 Duo version.

2) FCP doesn't have direct support for pulldown removal for 1080/24p, does it? It does for 24pA, but I don't think it does for 24p.

3) Premiere 2.0 doesn't do anything with the HVX by itself. You need Raylight, or CineForm, or the Matrox Axio system.

4) Canopus EDIUS Broadcast. Run, don't walk, to download the demo. EDIUS is far and away the best P2 integration of any NLE (and much better P2 integration than FCP and even better than Avid). Now, whether 4.0 is up to the same standards as an editor as FCP or Avid, that I'll have to find out (my version is 3.61, I haven't upgraded) but 4.0 is supposed to be more robust. EDIUS is "the new Vegas", as far as I'm concerned.

As far as your last line, *every* editor supports HVX and DVCPROHD, if you use Raylight or Cineform. They just may not support it natively.
 
Barry_Green said:
1) Yes there's an adapter coming, from duel-systems.com. You can also use a P2 Store as a direct pass-thru slot. And yes I'll be getting one as soon as they announce the Core 2 Duo version.
Click to expand...

Barry, are you switching to Macs? I thought some of your favorite applications (DV Rack, Vegas, Edius) only run on PC's. What are the advantages of switching?
 
Sumfun said:
Barry, are you switching to Macs? I thought some of your favorite applications (DV Rack, Vegas, Edius) only run on PC's. What are the advantages of switching?
Click to expand...

Those should work on the Intel Mac now since you can install Windows XP and dual boot to either OS.
 
better?

better?

Barry_Green said:
EDIUS is far and away the best P2 integration of any NLE (and much better P2 integration than FCP and even better than Avid).
Click to expand...

My question may seem confrontational here if one were to assume that I thought of myself as a know-it-all... but as a self-professed newbie, I can tell you that I really am this ignorant...

... but what does Barry mean that Edius has better P2 integration than FCP? I mean, as a beginner, I've found it very easy to import P2 footage and edit it in FCP. I mean, I go to FILE > IMPORT > P2 and that's it... it's there. I edit. I'm sure I'm missing his point, just because of my limited knowledge. Could someone please explain?
 
I think there are more organization options with apps designed specifically for importing clips. Maybe some better frame rate handling as well. YOu know how when you import it shows the clips in the bin as funky names like IJ940.mov or something like that? Well in stand alone importers, i think you get easier renaming and loggin options.

until i make a feature, and need logging organization like that, ill stick with FCP 5.1.1
 
As far as renaming goes, I just click on a file and name it... I don't really understand the concept of using another piece of software like P2 Logger to name the files, when I can do that in FCP. I will probably understand more the deeper i get into this... and the more I learn.
 
Personally i think the price of some of those programs just to grab clips off of a P2 card are outragous! FCP studio is only 1200 bucks , and is a total steal. It is the best suite of Apps ever created, having a Mac and not having FCStudio is blasphemy
 
On re-reading this post I decided that I didn't state my question clearly. So I've re-written it in the next post.
 
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Here is the situation:
I'm considering going on a 10-day indie film shoot that requires travel. The client is accustomed to shooting all day long, only pausing to change tape or swap batteries. The client wants to shoot in HD and is impressed with what he's seen from the HVX.

I prefer to shoot in 720p24pN . I currently have two 4GB cards. I have FCP Studio HD and a 12" powerbook that can go with me. Because the powerbook doesn't have a cardbus slot, I am accustomed to shooting for 15 minutes and then ingesting the clips into FCP via firewire with the HVX in 1394-device mode.

Obviously, this method is not practical for my client who has budgeted and planned for 10 full days of shooting in the continuous style he is accustomed to from SD DV films. While there can be some accomodation, I think spending half the time on the set downloading clips is not going to be appreciated. And going longer than 10 days is not in the budget.

So because of this, I am looking at the options available for more continuous shooting. And I can spend between $1000 and $2000 to make a significant difference.

Here are the options I've discovered so far:

  • 1) Tether the 12" powerbook to the camera with firewire and capture streaming in FCP 720p24p. And shoot special segments requiring speed effects in 720p24pN to the P2 card and then ingest into FCP via firewire. Spend the money on USB-attached disk drives for capture.
    I don't like this option because I have to tether the camera to the mac. And I can't shoot in native mode. But it does seem to be a practical solution.
  • 2) Buy the Panasonic P2 drive and an extra 4GB P2 card. Shoot to P2 and download in the background to the P2 drive, and then dump the P2 drive to the mac laptop behind that to get continuous shooting.
    This gets me the ability to record in native mode. I was always bothered by the price of the P2 drive for a 60GB disk. But since the price has dropped, maybe this is the best option for me now.
  • 3) If I get the extra 4GB card, then maybe there is some other less expensive option for reading it than the Pansonic P2 drive. Well, with the Mac and FCP I am kind of stuck. Because the 12" doesn't have a cardbus slot. And the new macbooks don't have a cardbus slot either (they have expresscard slots). I've looked for a cardbus drive that can be attached by expresscard, firewire, or USB, but apparently such a thing doesn't exist yet. I've found a couple of USB pcmcia drives, but none that have been verified to work with the P2 card and P2 software.
    So... there is apparently no Mac option available. Even though if I have to spend the money, I'd rather upgrade the laptop than buy extra special-purpose gear.
  • 4) That leads me to look at my PC laptop options. I can probably find a PC Laptop for about $1000 that has a cardbus card slot. It won't run FCP, of course. So its only use would be to emulate the P2 drive and enable me to copy P2 cards to a USB-attached portable hard drive. If I want to examine the clips or work with them at all, like to create a rough cut or dailies, then I'm stuck lugging along the 12" mac as well as the PC laptop. I have Premiere Pro 1.0. Research indicates that upgrading that to Premiere 2.0 only provides HDV support and not DVCPROHD. So the answer then is to add Raylight or Cineform for a couple of hundred dollars to Premiere 1.0. Then I only have to bring one laptop.
    This might be the closest thing to an solution for the price. I can ingest the files on the laptop in the field and then work on the mac to do the edit after the shoot.
  • 5) Firestore. No 720p24pN. It looks from the forums like there are a lot of early technical issues and battery issues. Or ... wait for the Cineporter... which should provide 720p24pN, but probably not in the time frame, and it might have its own early technical issues.
    I think the current reliability risks and the lack of 720p24pN nixes this option for me.
  • 6) The management option. Sit down with the client and explain that the new technology works more like film and less like video. Explain that we will have to use a variety of capture methods depending on what is being shot and the location, availability of power, and so forth. And that because of this we need to plan on shooting for 15 minutes and taking 15 minute breaks, and shooting streaming capture to FCP when we need to go longer.
    This is a zero cost solution. Of course I might not be involved in the shoot by the end of the conversation.


Did I miss anything?

Is #2 my best choice? I'm leaning towards #2 now. The P2 drive and an extra 4GB card.

Thanks for your thoughts and insights.
 
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I'd say go with #4...it looks like you've done your home work...Raylight is less expensive than Cineform and I'm sure Cineform requires PP1.5 or >. Best of luck.
 
If you just want a laptop to emulate the P2 Store, there's no reason to spend $1000 on it. You can get a cheapo $400 or $500 laptop to do that job.

You could also look into renting a P2 Store for the duration of your shoot. I'd suggest that might be the most practical, since it will work as a pass-thru slot for your Mac, so you could use your existing laptop and do your editing on that.
 
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